LFR loot exploit is so bad. Free Tier for all

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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12/02/2011 12:59 PMPosted by Sammonoske
Four bosses, four tokens, four pieces of gear. Where's the exploit?


The part where multiple players in your raid get all their tier in one night. Odds of that happening without exploiting? Never.


There is no limit to how many times a guild can run a raid using the LFR system. Remember, you cannot LOOT a boss twice. But you can participate in a kill as many times as you please until you get something you want, roll AND win.

It has already been explained how you can up the odds of getting a complete set from a normal mode raid, but if multiple guild members got complete normal mode sets in a single night, then the guild members either have a ton of alts (not beyond the possibility for a world guild since I personally have multiple level 85s across 3 account) or they did do something funky with the raid lockout.

Simply saying , "Full Tier? Exploit!" is just Haters Gotta Hate talk.

12/02/2011 01:07 PMPosted by Feff
wow go outside or something no lifers
Could take your own advice, just sayin'. :3
I don't understand why there are even limits to the LFR drops. I wish it would just drop infinite ammount of times so we can avoid bugs like this.
It's fairly old at this point seeing just what new exploit they'll be using at every content patch to get ahead. It would be nice to see a more heavy handed action taken to encourage guilds to clear content properly.

12/02/2011 01:12 PMPosted by Panazonik


The part where multiple players in your raid get all their tier in one night. Odds of that happening without exploiting? Never.


There is no limit to how many times a guild can run a raid using the LFR system. Remember, you cannot LOOT a boss twice. But you can participate in a kill as many times as you please until you get something you want, roll AND win.


This has been misinterpreted to the upteenth degree. You get a SHOT at loot once and only once per boss per week. You do not WIN loot per boss per week.
12/01/2011 10:39 PMPosted by Atheistgods
You can all but 1 take alts, give all gear to the one main raider. Then switch an alt in for a raider and repeat. So each raider gets the whole lockout to themselves.


That seems overly complicated. Couldn't you take 24 mains and 1 fresh alt each time who gets all the loot by default, then trades it to them after within the 2 hour window.

You would think this kind of thing would be obvious; I hope they don't make loot untradeable because of this exploit - maybe only untradeable for real ID friends and same-server players to limit exploits - but that seems capricious, too.
12/02/2011 01:12 PMPosted by Panazonik
Remember, you cannot LOOT a boss twice. But you can participate in a kill as many times as you please until you get something you want, roll AND win.


No. You are locked out whether you win, lose, or pass, you cannot loot that boss until next week.
12/02/2011 01:12 PMPosted by Panazonik
Remember, you cannot LOOT a boss twice. But you can participate in a kill as many times as you please until you get something you want, roll AND win.


Wrong. When loot rolls pop up on your screen, even if you pass on everything, you're locked out of seeing or receiving loot from that boss that week. At least, that's what it's SUPPOSED to be.

It's exactly like normal raids in that regard. You don't get another shot at Rag just because he didn't drop what you wanted.
12/02/2011 01:17 PMPosted by Gnoshglosh
Remember, you cannot LOOT a boss twice. But you can participate in a kill as many times as you please until you get something you want, roll AND win.


Wrong. When loot rolls pop up on your screen, even if you pass on everything, you're locked out of seeing or receiving loot from that boss that week. At least, that's what it's SUPPOSED to be.


Aye, though people are splitting hairs over this one.
12/02/2011 01:18 PMPosted by Aedrean
Aye, though people are splitting hairs over this one.


Telling someone they're wrong is splitting hairs? it's misinformation is all, and we're correcting that. Truth be told, I didn't see Aberrant's post.
If you EXPLOIT you get banned. There should be no excuse. Being a high end guild knowing this, you should be hit twice as hard. This ruins the game for everyone else trying to do the right thing. If they get away with this then there is no stopping people from continuously exploiting/cheating. The game is about working together... working hard! not cheating and killing something within the second week from a cheaters point of view. Discusting. Subscribers are down because the likes of people that cheat and exploit the game, either in PVE or PVP...

Blizzard.. do something. All the good hardworking folk are sick and tired of this crap.
Even if they did it in LFR it really wouldn't be 'exploiting' in my opinion. Even if 3 mains/22 alts rotating on LFR is incredibly cheesy it's well within the rule set proposed by the system. If any of those characters were eligible for loot TWICE than yes that breaks the system and should be met with swift action.

I believe the uproar however is exactly that. People gaming the system to absolutely guarantee that everyone gets everything they need from the first 4 bosses by these mains getting multiple shots at each boss.

The 3 mains/22 alts rotating thing is really hard to break without fundamentally changing the way LFR works. Only allowing you to do the place once breaks the place for legitimate people who D/C or suddenly have to go. Basically it just makes the system an absolute mess.


3 mains / 22 alts approach is not the issue I believe, at least, I wouldn't consider it an issue. Funny thing is, you could go
1 main / 24 alts
2 mains /23 alts
3 mains / 22 alts
etc

and the only time there would be an issue is if main #1 got loot from run #2 -> #25, main #1 or #2 got loot from run #3 -> #25, etc (assuming the "new main" got loot from "his" run and a different run, or said alts who repeat runs got loot from different runs).
12/02/2011 01:09 PMPosted by Firestyle
The 3 mains/22 alts rotating thing is really hard to break without fundamentally changing the way LFR works. Only allowing you to do the place once breaks the place for legitimate people who D/C or suddenly have to go. Basically it just makes the system an absolute mess.


Not really. You just make it so that no more than 10 players can queue together at a time, similar to how no more than 5 players can queue for a random BG at a time. This gets rid of the loot monopoly, and provides competition from 15 other players. Will you still get more loot by 10 players passing to 1? Sure. But it's not game breaking and requires A LOT more work and RNG.


Not a good idea, a guild working towards 25-mans may want to queue (once) with 11-24 people once a week, before doing 1-2 normals on 10-man.
If you are getting loot off of a boss twice then it is an exploit. This has always been the case in World of Warcraft, and we expect players to know better.

We’re in the process of implementing a hotfix to fix the exploit, and are deciding what steps we'll be taking for the gear that was already obtained.


I'd like to point out that it has been possible to obtain loot from the same boss within a lockout period for many months, using the random dungeon finder. More specifically, the ZA/ZG instances could be run multiple times per day with loot being obtainable on each run. The same goes for the five-man heroics, though the system in that case tended to prefer instances that the player wasn't locked to.

While we have never been able to run raids multiple times within a lockout before on the same character, it was very heavily implied that the Random Raid Finder would work like the LFD tool.

This isn't necessarily a case of "what has gone before", because it hasn't as far as raids go, and what HAS gone before has shown that looting bosses multiple times within a lockout has been an acceptable practice.
12/02/2011 01:12 PMPosted by Panazonik


The part where multiple players in your raid get all their tier in one night. Odds of that happening without exploiting? Never.


There is no limit to how many times a guild can run a raid using the LFR system. Remember, you cannot LOOT a boss twice. But you can participate in a kill as many times as you please until you get something you want, roll AND win.


Actually, I am pretty sure, you only get one shot at loot, even if you don't win anything. You shouldn't simply pass, kill him again, and get loot then.
Wrong. When loot rolls pop up on your screen, even if you pass on everything, you're locked out of seeing or receiving loot from that boss that week. At least, that's what it's SUPPOSED to be.


Thanks for the correction. Then it really is a matter of making multiple runs with the "same" alts and cycling in mains that do not share the same tier tokens. Still, working as intended.

Of course, anything that sidesteps the intent of only getting one chance at loot from one boss per week would be an exploit. Again, simply pointing at an armory as "proof" is just Haters Gotta Hate talk.

12/02/2011 01:12 PMPosted by Panazonik


The part where multiple players in your raid get all their tier in one night. Odds of that happening without exploiting? Never.


There is no limit to how many times a guild can run a raid using the LFR system. Remember, you cannot LOOT a boss twice. But you can participate in a kill as many times as you please until you get something you want, roll AND win.


Actually, I am pretty sure, you only get one shot at loot, even if you don't win anything. You shouldn't simply pass, kill him again, and get loot then.

If you are getting loot off of a boss twice then it is an exploit. This has always been the case in World of Warcraft, and we expect players to know better.

We’re in the process of implementing a hotfix to fix the exploit, and are deciding what steps we'll be taking for the gear that was already obtained.


I'd like to point out that it has been possible to obtain loot from the same boss within a lockout period for many months, using the random dungeon finder. More specifically, the ZA/ZG instances could be run multiple times per day with loot being obtainable on each run. The same goes for the five-man heroics, though the system in that case tended to prefer instances that the player wasn't locked to.

While we have never been able to run raids multiple times within a lockout before on the same character, it was very heavily implied that the Random Raid Finder would work like the LFD tool.

This isn't necessarily a case of "what has gone before", because it hasn't as far as raids go, and what HAS gone before has shown that looting bosses multiple times within a lockout has been an acceptable practice.


Except Blizz explicitly said you won't get a second shot in a week in the LFR. For those who don't cruise forums, if they wanted you to have a second shot, they wouldn't prevent you from simply rolling via the loot window on your subsequent kills.

LFD explicitly breaks the lockout on the heroics. It doesn't simply allow you to re-kill bosses.
For the record, I have been watching <Blood Legion>'s players stream on their Twitch.tv stream since the patch went live, and I can guarantee that 90% of them haven't even stepped foot into LFR, let alone attempt to exploit the system. In fact, to quote <Blood Legion>'s Dexter, "[Blood Legion] didn't even hear about the exploit until about 7pm on Thursday night."

Teething problems like this with a system like this can cause a world first race to truly become un-winnable for the players who follow the spirit of the game and do not "creatively use mechanics".

Following <Blood Legion>, I maintain that they (the exploiters who are determined by Blizzard's own investigation) should be punished for the misuse and exploitation of the system, but please do your best to make it a fair race to world first. Having the nail-biting moments as guilds close on World First Heroic Dragon Soul is better than watching 3 guilds duke it out and become a 1 horse race half-way through.
I'd like to see something be done about this. Maybe a week long ban for all of the offenders? This is reminiscent of instance cascading from Classic when you had guilds running 5+ BWL run on the same characters in a week. In those cases, the loot was stripped and the people were given one week bans. Why can't it be the same in this case?

It figures that a new exploit would be introduced via LFR.


Why only weeklong? The gaming community would be better without such cheap players. Get rid of them permanently.

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