LFR loot rules are totally broken

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12/08/2011 08:43 PMPosted by Lopin

It depends on the situation. Players are describing a few different unfavorable scenarios with the current implementation. Each of those scenarios might call for a very different approach. Each approach could require a vastly different amount of development/programming time.

There are some loot scenarios that can potentially be improved via hotfixes, if the idea is to manually set up different flagging on specific items. Larger changes to the way the loot system functions though, with regard to what information it's able to recall while determining eligibility and bonus roles, will have to be done via patches.


But this issue has been going on since Wrath, when hunters could take tank/str trinkets or str weapons or warriors/dk's taking ag rings,trinkets, etc. in the LFD and including Cata dungeons now. LFD has been around while now, how long does it take to fix an issue like this?

Now in all fairness there wasn't as much complaining when only rare gear was dropping (Wrath reg and heroics) that no one wanted, but now with epics in LFR it becomes an issue that seems to be addressed. Was this an issue that was just over looked until it came to the forefront? Meaning, "we will worry about it when they finally get upset about it"?


You're completely right, it has been an issue for a long time. Before the lfg tool, when it was just groups formed in trade and such, people rolling poorly or to be jerks were branded ninjas. With the lfg tool you can get away with it. It's especially bad in low level dungeons, as no loot rules apply at all on anything. Granted, it's not a huge issue cause you're going to outlevel the gear so fast. However, for someone new to the game? That's an awful first impression, people can ninja the gear and get away with it.

People having issues with the LFR loot system is understandable, as it's barely 2 weeks old. People are still having issues with the LFG loot system, and that bodes ill for people who are having issues with LFR. If LFG was never addressed, what reason do they have to believe that LFR will be? I understand it's probably quite a lot of work, but I would love to see a definitive yes or no in regards to Blizzard working on it, both in LFG and LFR.
I think developers of LFR knows some ppl are retarded. That's why they add+100system.
However,the retarded are underestimated. They just !@#$ing need everything if they can use the need button.


I honestly am at a loss as to why some people really are being %*%!s with the system. Shammys rolling need on agi daggers, dks rolling on agi trinkets... They even leave right after so it's not to give it to someone else in the raid. I don't get it.
Hey folks,

So, just to be clear, we're certainly aware that the loot system in Raid Finder needs to be smarter, as there's currently not a way for the system to determine loot eligibility based on talent specialization or class. To use the OP's example, if a Strength weapon drops and a hunter rolls on it, the system says "Yep, a DPS player is rolling on it. Okie dokie. Here's your +100." (We should really find ways for the game to say "okie dokie" in your chat log.)

This obviously needs to change and we're in the middle of discussing potential short-term solutions, as a more long-term solution will require programming new tech into the system which will account for class/spec.

We only ask that you keep in mind patch 4.3 is our first implementation of Raid Finder and the "Need Plus" system. The design is quite complicated and requires further iteration to make loot distribution more intelligent.


You don't even have to program new tech to do it for the bulk of things in raid finder.

Str weapon Warrior/DK/pally only. Agi ring Rogue/druid/shaman/hunter. etc

Because you have a fair amount of "players" that will roll need to sell it to vendor as it is.

You can put class requirement onto raid finder items in no time and eliminate the bulk of issues the players are having.

Not saying the new tech to recognize spec is a bad idea, but it can be done much simpler and quicker.
Hey folks,

So, just to be clear, we're certainly aware that the loot system in Raid Finder needs to be smarter, as there's currently not a way for the system to determine loot eligibility based on talent specialization or class. To use the OP's example, if a Strength weapon drops and a hunter rolls on it, the system says "Yep, a DPS player is rolling on it. Okie dokie. Here's your +100." (We should really find ways for the game to say "okie dokie" in your chat log.)

This obviously needs to change and we're in the middle of discussing potential short-term solutions, as a more long-term solution will require programming new tech into the system which will account for class/spec.

We only ask that you keep in mind patch 4.3 is our first implementation of Raid Finder and the "Need Plus" system. The design is quite complicated and requires further iteration to make loot distribution more intelligent.


You don't even have to program new tech to do it for the bulk of things in raid finder.

Str weapon Warrior/DK/pally only. Agi ring Rogue/druid/shaman/hunter. etc

Because you have a fair amount of "players" that will roll need to sell it to vendor as it is.

You can put class requirement onto raid finder items in no time and eliminate the bulk of issues the players are having.

Not saying the new tech to recognize spec is a bad idea, but it can be done much simpler and quicker.


Actually it does need spec requirements, I just did one of these boring new 5 mans and lost a tank trinket to a DPS.
I was in a group with a Prot Pal from Bronzebeard today. u know he just needed everything.
He and warrior got two trinkets from Spine. He needed two healing mace, agi polearm for sure. i didn't notice about the spell dagger. idk if a pal can need that.

Im pretty sure some ppl just need on everything. They don't care even whether its good for them. They just want need it,sell it, de it or w/e.
In the mean time, yes it would be nice if players would only roll on what they will actually use instead of just taking it because its shiny and cool.

I suppose what we could do is say a few hunters and druids roll on a str trinket you could to then if you win it go through all the rolls find the top roller for either dps DK Paladin or Warrior and give it to them. I've seen people do that before.

Also the other night a paladin tank / ret was his offspec as he came in as tank but he queued as an accident (had tank / dps clicked/ticked in the queue box, his tank spec wasn't 'ready' for raid finder) so someone else with tank offspec and gear in bag decided to go tank and the palli went dps.

Anyways, that tank/dps paladin rolled on the healing shield and won it -- this made me boggle somewhat so I actually whispered the guy and used the word please about 50x .... low and behold he very kindly traded it over to a healing paladin :)

12/08/2011 05:00 PMPosted by Zarhym
This obviously needs to change and we're in the middle of discussing potential short-term solutions, as a more long-term solution will require programming new tech into the system which will account for class/spec.


First of all, I wanna say the RF is a great step forward for the casuals. Hope this is enough that you don't need to keep nerfing stuff so the more serious raiders can get a shot at encounters the way they were intended to be.

Now that's outta the way... are you serious?
How did that get through testing? Did you choose to release a broken system in favor of not delaying the patch or did not a single soul in blizzard realize that this was broken?

I really hope it's the first, cuz if it's the second, you should fire every single person that was in charge of it, and hire people with an IQ higher than that of a pillow.
This is so funny!

All the explanations in the world don't make this any better.

Just say:

"yes, we screwed up and released this system too early... we didn't really think things out, and we thought everyone would just be happy if we added a ton of BS. We will be fixing this very soon."

Cmon, this is obviously a lame failure and should be replaced/retooled.

...Just say it blizz. Cmon, say it.


They do that with every patch and never admit it, take a look at Ret Paladins at the start of Cata for an example. lol

The game is all about making money not quality.

Did a LFR.. mages rolled for shoulders, same mage got 2 pairs.. at the same time. err?
same LFR (seige of wyrmrest) one shaman won 5 pieces of loot. considering how many others who could of shared it were in the team.. the probability of it always going to him was numbing.. and yet it continued.

I guess this, together with the previous 10 pages is yet again more proof the Blizz not only has dropped the ball with testing and development, but smashed it, thrown it up in the air, and looked around innocently when the catcher asks where the ball is.

I'm waiting for the REDUCTION of subscription fees to pay for half-assed, rushed hackneyed content.
What about making it client side it sends the data to the server what your main stats are then it lets you only roll on what your class uses...i know it may not be a good idea but it is one or make the raid finder see your class with just enough code to know what you need.

But not on BOE stuff that should be greed only so everyone in the party has a chance at it for an alt. or to sell.
So tonight we have 2 plate classes winning agi items.

the first was a dk that won an agi trinket (with a role bonus no less)
Then the Warrior tank that won the agi polearm?

I get popups all the time as my hunter to roll on strength trinks. WHA?ATA>?

seriously people? This isn't rocket science. DK != agi. Hunter != str. Fix the loot rules.



i agree it is broken, if a item is next to worthless for your class you shouldn't roll on it, or even be able to roll on it.
What I don't understand is why the system was released without even checking on the spec of the player.

Also, from what I see most of the things can easily be fixed by... doing a lot "if" functions after and/or before the rolls.

IE: Checking if the player already won the same item.
Checking if the player already have the tier piece linked to his current spec.
etc etc.
Hey folks,
This obviously needs to change and we're in the middle of discussing potential short-term solutions, as a more long-term solution will require programming new tech into the system which will account for class/spec.


Out of curiosity when all of this is said and done, and LFR works as intended will players affected by this system see anything? I realize given the current situation there is nothing to really work on but the problem itself, but I specifically lost Will of the Unbinding to a Feral cat who told me it was for his off spec. To clarify on that, I mean will the second highest roll (of a class than can actually use the item) be given the item instead? Or are they SoL?

I'm sure it's been mentioned, but couldn't you program in a double check system?

For example. A Strength 2h drops that is DPS

First a check is done for DPS= +100 to you roll
Then it does another check on class, and Warriors and DKs get another +100

so it would go

Off-Spec: no bonus
Hunter: +100
DK/Warrior DPS: +200

it's not a perfect solution, but I think it would prevent much of the issues
Is this where I go to complain? Take 2 hours with lfr to kill deathwing, tank sword drops and I get out rolled by 5 dps.

Awwwwwesome
12/08/2011 08:35 PMPosted by Quard

You pointed out the reason in the rest of your post. Technically, it's the same issue as the example I covered with hunters rolling on a two-handed Strength weapons. Spirit is a DPS stat for some classes which, therefore, means items with Spirit are flagged for healing and DPS. This is exactly what I mean by the system needing to be more intelligent.


But CLOTH spirit isn't used for DPS. That should be flagged only for healers, unless it already is.



spirit=hit=DPS for Spriests

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