I will never go back to normal raiding again.

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@OP

Part of what makes the game 'fun' is having a goal - that means progression.

Now that you've killed the final boss of the current content in the first week it was released, what is there for you to look forward to on the PvE front besides doing the same thing for the next 6 months.. never having any possibility of not succeeding?

I fail to see how that's fun in any way - beyond the first few times.

Hardcore guilds also get that bored attrition factor, but at least they overcome some real challenges to get there over the first few weeks/months (and rarely are heroic raids cleared super fast except for all but the very very top end guilds)
NO! Stop having fun dammit!
It's a sad day when rogues with 2.6 offhands, warrior tanks with strength gems and mages with spirit can kill a boss in the first week in a god damned pug.

I hate how Blizz (i know they do it because the majority of the subcriber base isn't good enough to do normal bosses with a guild) has made it so easy so EVERYONE can experience it. Atleast we have heroic to really test ourselves.
Well done Blizzard. I am finally able to feel "current" with the content again, without having to commit to a schedule.

Thank you.
@OP

Part of what makes the game 'fun' is having a goal - that means progression.

Now that you've killed the final boss of the current content in the first week it was released, what is there for you to look forward to on the PvE front besides doing the same thing for the next 6 months.. never having any possibility of not succeeding?

I fail to see how that's fun in any way - beyond the first few times.

Hardcore guilds also get that bored attrition factor, but at least they overcome some real challenges to get there over the first few weeks/months (and rarely are heroic raids cleared super fast except for all but the very very top end guilds)


I feel the same way which is why I'm not in any rush to clear DW via the LFR.

But people that have no capability of killing the end boss anyway are going to eventually hit that boredom wall, this just lets them have a bit of satisfaction (although a bit spoon fed imo) before they get there.
12/07/2011 06:14 PMPosted by Eco
Players should not kill Deathwing this fast, but instead it should be done by only a few players and guilds that have earned the spot to kill Deathwing.


12/07/2011 06:14 PMPosted by Eco
I am not saying that only a minority of players should raid
That is exactly what you are saying.
Just another honest thank you for this opportunity. Having played since classic I can say without a doubt this is the most fun I've ever had. I love raid finder and I hope it continues to be a centerpiece of PvE for many years to come! I know it has completely revitalized my enthusiasm for WoW (like THAT ever dies down, ya right....).

Again, just a massive thank you. I appreciate every minute you all put into this game. <3

-Happy Gnome Death Knight
12/07/2011 06:15 PMPosted by Strobelight
(and rarely are heroic raids cleared super fast except for all but the very very top end guilds)


Especially when they cheat to do it, knowing Blizzard will be too chicken to give them punishment that actually sends a message.

I'm glad, I can't raid much due to RL not meshing with guild raid times, like when ICC released(WHY MUST THE FATES CONSPIRE AGAINST ME). I just wish I had this then
Honestly I can't stomach to see this post and it makes me sick to see that World of Warcarft is turning into some junkfood game. Players should not kill Deathwing this fast, but instead it should be done by only a few players and guilds that have earned the spot to kill Deathwing. This is very insulting from a lore perspective, in which that everyone in Azeroth gets to kill Deathwing. This isn't Diablo where every player "gets to see Deathwing" in MMORPGs a everyone shouldn't automatically be main hero, but instead they are a dime a dozen and the way from them to "see" the content is to earn their way to the most important places in the game.

I am not saying that only a minority of players should raid, but I think raiding should not be for everyone. Raiding is all about teamwork and commitment where 25 players all work as a single unit and go through the most challenging content in the game. Raiding should also be about community and working with other players. I am not so found of this raid finder for the same reason why I am not found of the LFG tool, it takes the concept of community and teamwork out of the game. It makes me so upset that Blizzard is trivializes gameplay value, and the concept of teamwork and community just for this horrible idea of no player left behind. This whole concept of no player left behind has no place in MMORPGs, it is an insult to the lore and gameplay concepts of WoW.

I for one am not a satisfied subscriber. It's hard for me to stomach to see players down Deathwing who really didn't earn the spot to be raiders in the first place. It's also hard for me to stomach that players no longer take heroics, or any gameplay mechanic of WoW seriously anymore. I am truly concerned about the direction World of Warcraft is going.


What I find truly insulting is that people think they're entitled to see content simply because they pay to play the game. As it turns out, everyone pays to play the games they buy! However, the only way I'm going to get to that final boss--be it in WoW or Diablo or any game is if I actually put in some effort to get to that point. Spending a single raid night on the first week of patch release is hardly any effort at all.
12/07/2011 06:18 PMPosted by Milsa
Players should not kill Deathwing this fast, but instead it should be done by only a few players and guilds that have earned the spot to kill Deathwing.


I am not saying that only a minority of players should raid
That is exactly what you are saying.


I am not saying that at all. What I want to see is that all raids within the expansion be occupied, instead of one raid per patch. I hate to see raids go obsolete within their expansion. Best time was during Vanilla and Burning Crusade in which that there were still players in Karazhan, Grull's Lair,and Black Temple, even if the Sunwell was out. It was ok to be in a "lower" raid, and players didn't expect to have automatic access to the endgame raid.

I think that many players should be able to do Dragon Soul if they earn that spot. When it comes to killing Deathwing it should be an accomplishment for top guilds only, at least for the first few months. This isn't Diablo 2 where everyone should get to see Deathwing, but instead it should be for players who earned it.
@OP

Part of what makes the game 'fun' is having a goal - that means progression.

Now that you've killed the final boss of the current content in the first week it was released, what is there for you to look forward to on the PvE front besides doing the same thing for the next 6 months.. never having any possibility of not succeeding?

I fail to see how that's fun in any way - beyond the first few times.

Hardcore guilds also get that bored attrition factor, but at least they overcome some real challenges to get there over the first few weeks/months (and rarely are heroic raids cleared super fast except for all but the very very top end guilds)

Perhaps the OP has other goals, or you don't have to a particular goal in the game to have fun. OH SNAP!

Some people do not have the time to progress through normal or heroic raids, so your answer is that they shouldn't have any access at all? Why? It's not like it affects your experience in the Normal and Heroic difficulties. In fact, perhaps nerfs will be less common thanks to the Raid Finder.
I'm glad to see all these positive posts. Being a Dad of 2 small kids i've never been able to raid with any regularity. I'm very psyched. Like one person said, I was always bummed that I never got to see the ultimate content. And the prospect of getting to lfr raid in MOP really gets me excited about the future of WoW. And BTW kudos on the new dungeons. Dig them. Sooo much better than the Troll dungeons ;)
Does this mean you're introducing a third difficulty setting at the expense of content development? What does this mean for future raid content?

I really think that downscaling the content for looking for raid is just going to dilute the experience of raiding and simply using normal mode with the tool would have been a better implementation.


If this is the case, simply drop HM content. It is directed at a much smaller segment of your customer base than the LFR version
12/07/2011 06:22 PMPosted by Eco


That is exactly what you are saying.


I am not saying that at all. What I want to see is that all raids within the expansion be occupied, instead of one raid per patch. I hate to see raids go obsolete within their expansion. Best time was during Vanilla and Burning Crusade in which that there were still players in Karazhan, Grull's Lair,and Black Temple, even if the Sunwell was out. It was ok to be in a "lower" raid, and players didn't expect to have automatic access to the endgame raid.

I think that many players should be able to do Dragon Soul if they earn that spot. When it comes to killing Deathwing it should be an accomplishment for top guilds only, at least for the first few months. This isn't Diablo 2 where everyone should get to see Deathwing, but instead it should be for players who earned it.


I miss those days too man, but they died a long time ago.

Crying about it now isn't going to accomplish a damn thing. IMO, the game should've stayed the way it was in TBC and Classic or it should change fully to the model Diablo uses. The weird hybrid style that we've been stuck in since WOTLK needs to die. It's a lie to think that we're any worse off with the LFR than we were with TOC pugs from the perspective of people earning the right to kill endgame bosses.

Instead try to forget what other people are doing with their time and instead try and focus all of your attention on what you're doing. If you're clearing content without the hand holding that Blizzard is offering let that be your own satisfaction and let the people who enjoy the hand holding enjoy it.

I love the raid finder, it's everything I've been wanting for a long time.

One request: could you make it so when you queue up, you have the option to queue for -only- a fresh run if you want? When I was doing the second half of the LFR, I had to go in and out of queue for almost an hour just to get a group that wasn't already at 2/8.
I agree with absolutely every word said by the OP, and it's refreshing to see such a positive post.

A new day is dawning. I've had my problems with WoW, in the past and more so with Cataclysm. I've nerdraged, and I've been disappointed. But now, I have something to be truly happy with. From the moment I joined this game, the inaccessibility of raiding has been my biggest complaint about it, and now it's been removed.

I have killed raid bosses within a week of their release. Me. I've never killed relevant bosses before nerfs before, discounting one measly Halfus kill many months ago. A whole new aspect of the game has opened up to me; it's wonderful, and revolutionary.

I am extremely grateful to Blizzard for at last removing the biggest problem this game had.

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