I will never go back to normal raiding again.

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01/05/2012 10:48 AMPosted by Ahndri
Yep, we get it now. Positive feedback only please. Got it.


Well, duh. They think positive is "constructive".

A blue - or a green - will put up their "Please keep your comments constructive" every time someone posts something along the lines of "Feature X sucks! I hate it!" but you'll never see that when someone posts something along the lines of "Feature X is great! I love it!" even though they're equally unconstructive. Nor will they ever make any kind of demand that you tell them WHY you love Feature X.
The week after Blizzard unlocks the second half of the DS raids in LFR the forums explode in complaints about the loot system. Is this a case of content being quickly consumed and once it is seen regarded as just another place to grind gear and these players dont actually enjoy the content?
01/05/2012 11:10 AMPosted by Mishotem
Yep, we get it now. Positive feedback only please. Got it.


Well, duh. They think positive is "constructive".

A blue - or a green - will put up their "Please keep your comments constructive" every time someone posts something along the lines of "Feature X sucks! I hate it!" but you'll never see that when someone posts something along the lines of "Feature X is great! I love it!" even though they're equally unconstructive. Nor will they ever make any kind of demand that you tell them WHY you love Feature X.


To be fair, an unsubstantiated positive feedback is more useful than an unsubstantiated negative feedback. The positive one tells the devs they did right, and implies that doing similar things in the future will be well received. The negative one leaves the devs without any reference as to what they should do.
Hope Blizz can do one more difficulty:

Normal LFR -> Heroic LFR ->Normal Raid -> Heroic Raid

ilvl 384/390 - ilvl 390/396 - ilvl 397/403 - ilvl 410/416

Normal LFR - just like now, can ignore mechanics, AFKers can get loot lol. Blue gear please, no purple

Heroic LFR -> Same mechanics with Normal mode, same damage but just lesser hitpoints (so lesser rinse/repeat phases)

Normal Raid - Same as now but should be puggable still

Heroic Raid - This should not be puggable and should never be nerfed. They should always have the best looking gear and hopfully a non-purple gear. Maybe Yellow? Just like in D2.


Please make t his happen in Patch 4.4! and include old raids!


I would rather want Blizzard to actually improve their voice chat to a usable, battle.net based application (so it's outside of WoW and keeps working if WoW crashes or the player needs to re-log); invest some time in developing ways to actually measure player skill (and effectively evaluate gear and it's fitness to the role the player has chosen); and then just add normal modes (and, perhaps, even hard modes) to the LFR, but only available for players that have good enough gear and skill.

In fact, I bet if the LFD, back at Cata launch, was actually as good as the GearScore addon at telling if the character's gear is proper for a role - and prevented players with unworkable gear from queuing - a lot of the early LFD drama would have been prevented.
A lot of posts in this thread make me happy. It warms the heart to hear that players are having a good time experiencing the final raid of Cataclysm and putting the "death" in Deathwing. Raid Finder was specifically designed to make raid content more accessible. We do, after all, put a hell of a lot of work into designing that content. To that end, if we need to take more time with each raid to develop a Raid Finder version so that a vastly larger percentage of our playerbase can take part, then it's well worth it.

Thanks for taking the time to share your feedback, Tweak, and everyone else who jumped in with constructive comments as well. :)


also if you look there are more and more posts saying that they are bored and dont know what to do now...dont know if thats just coincidence but thats just me.


This is really a weak argument. I keep going and going to pick up gear for my toons. Lots of times you don't win anything.

Even if I did get every piece I needed on the first day, every possible upgrade (which I'm sure nobody has accomplished even yet), I would still run LFR. What do you think was keeping casuals playing before when we had no gear upgrades???

Let me say it again, what do you think was keeping us playing before when we had no gear upgrades??? We ran the same dungeons over and over, the same dailies. Going after the same 397 gear you are.

Currently I'm running 3 toons through each boss in LFR once a week. And it's taken a game that had dried up and breathed new life into it. Old players are returning. It's beginning to get better...
01/05/2012 11:27 AMPosted by Zebú


Well, duh. They think positive is "constructive".

A blue - or a green - will put up their "Please keep your comments constructive" every time someone posts something along the lines of "Feature X sucks! I hate it!" but you'll never see that when someone posts something along the lines of "Feature X is great! I love it!" even though they're equally unconstructive. Nor will they ever make any kind of demand that you tell them WHY you love Feature X.


To be fair, an unsubstantiated positive feedback is more useful than an unsubstantiated negative feedback. The positive one tells the devs they did right, and implies that doing similar things in the future will be well received. The negative one leaves the devs without any reference as to what they should do.


Blizzard: We're making treeform a CD in Cataclysm.

Players against: We don't like this change! We love our treeform as is!

Players for: Great change! We don't like the treeform anyway!


One of those opinions is considered constructive by Blizzard. You can replace treeform with the MoP talent system if you want a more timely example, and you could make the same comparison.

Not liking things doesn't need a reason. And being someone who doesn't like something doesn't mean you need to provide an alternative. Sometimes you just don't like a change because you like things the way they are. That should be enough.
Thank you Blizzard for LFR! I can't wait to use it when I get to max level. ^_^

I hope that you expand it to more, and older, raids in the future, that would be a very big cheery, on top of the sweet icing that is the LFR.

Thank you Blizzard, once again, from a player who may have never gotten to see the end of the story any other way. You've made me a happy player.

Thank you for making this game a relaxing joy to play, with challenges, and fun around every corner. ^_^

I can't wait for MoP!

12/20/2011 03:00 AMPosted by Brudarek
All the 'yay LFR' shows is that the majority of players aren't interested in any type of challenging gameplay. They just want interactive cutscenes with free loot at the end.

Didn't the new Twilight heroics show you that? There is basically no way to wipe on them unless you REALLY try.
12/17/2011 08:53 AMPosted by Slåughter
yes its good but when you do 8/8 in lfr and try to pug a noramal they say ooo dont link lfr !@#$ it isnt the same haha

Um..because it isn't the same. You can ignore almost every single insta-gib in normal mode ability and still win in LFR. On my shaman I have been in groups where the DPS was so atrocious that they couldn't kill one ooze so the boss sucked up all three. Even with that, we just healed our faces off and the boss handed us loot.

LFR =/= normal

Just because you have cleared the former in no way indicates that you want face plant in the latter.

To be fair, an unsubstantiated positive feedback is more useful than an unsubstantiated negative feedback. The positive one tells the devs they did right, and implies that doing similar things in the future will be well received. The negative one leaves the devs without any reference as to what they should do.


Blizzard: We're making treeform a CD in Cataclysm.

Players against: We don't like this change! We love our treeform as is!

Players for: Great change! We don't like the treeform anyway!


One of those opinions is considered constructive by Blizzard. You can replace treeform with the MoP talent system if you want a more timely example, and you could make the same comparison.

Not liking things doesn't need a reason. And being someone who doesn't like something doesn't mean you need to provide an alternative. Sometimes you just don't like a change because you like things the way they are. That should be enough.[/quote]

Saying you don't like the change because you like seeing your character as a tree is specific and constructive feedback.

On the other hand, saying you just dislike the MoP talent revamp is too vague. Why do you dislike it? Do you feel like you will have less options? Do you think players should be able to actually create builds that can't effectively work, so they are forced to put some thought on their builds? Do you worry that your favorite talent is getting cut? Do you worry that some combination of talents you like will be offered on the same tier in the new system, and thus you will only be able to get one of them?

There can be potentially an endless number of reasons to dislike something, each of them with a potentially different course of action to "fix". Thus, why you should be fairly specific when stating your dislikes, and why blanket "I don't like it" statements are often useless to Blizzard.
01/05/2012 10:48 AMPosted by Ahndri
Yep, we get it now. Positive feedback only please. Got it.


Yes, they have one thread to read not calling them incompetent, wanting them fired, saying the game sucks and comparing them to Hitler. This is obviously unreasonable.
01/05/2012 12:58 PMPosted by Arianenna
yes its good but when you do 8/8 in lfr and try to pug a noramal they say ooo dont link lfr !@#$ it isnt the same haha

Um..because it isn't the same. You can ignore almost every single insta-gib in normal mode ability and still win in LFR. On my shaman I have been in groups where the DPS was so atrocious that they couldn't kill one ooze so the boss sucked up all three. Even with that, we just healed our faces off and the boss handed us loot.

LFR =/= normal

Just because you have cleared the former in no way indicates that you want face plant in the latter.


Something I would love if Blizzard did:

- Have all the Normal mode mechanics present in the LFR, just as hard for each character to properly do, and just tune them down so that raids can afford a larger number of mistakes and still clear the content.
- Have an achievement per boss awarded to players, in both LFR and Normal difficulties, for going through the whole boss fight without failing even a single mechanic (i.e., not attacking what shouldn't be attacked, staying clear of the fire, etc).

By doing this, getting the achievement would be a fair proof that the player understands, and can cope with, all boss mechanics on Normal. It would be better if the achiev didn't depend on the actions of the rest of the raid, but even if it needs the rest of the raid to behave, such an achievement would still be useful to show players where they are failing.
I have a strong feeling that LFR isn't going anywhere, anytime soon, and if anything, it will be expanded and improved upon for years to come.

Personally...as someone who played EQ, and UO ,for years before WOW, as a life long gamer, I could not be happier.

I hope that other MMOs learn from WOW and make their own LFR.

Thank you Blizzard!
01/05/2012 01:16 PMPosted by Therovan
I have a strong feeling that LFR isn't going anywhere, anytime soon, and if anything, it will be expanded and improved upon for years to come.

It wont be removed and improved it will be. Personally I just hope it actually becomes a stepping stone between five mans and normal raids instead of a step back like it is now as there are those of us who dont always have to time to put down for a PuG normal yet dont want to turn off our brain in order to enjoy content.
Naturally, the "I have played this game like a full time job for 7 years" crowd will report this post.

The OP speaks of something that's been badly needed; inclusiveness. And now, thanks to Blizzard, people can raid without all of the problems the OP mentioned. Bravo.

D'aaaaaaw~ You think LFR is actually raiding ^_^

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