Looking For Raid—Need Plus Updates

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12/13/2011 04:58 PMPosted by Illucia
i want to work for blizz so i can steal from people and screw their stuff up then ignore them when they start complaining!!!!!

Kinda like how you stole that gear from the class it was intended for?


no if its not needed on then its free game and there is a difference in rolling for loot and giving someone loot and taking it away 2 weeks later
12/13/2011 04:58 PMPosted by Illucia
i want to work for blizz so i can steal from people and screw their stuff up then ignore them when they start complaining!!!!!

Kinda like how you stole that gear from the class it was intended for?


"Rolled against" =/= "stole".
As a part of the on-going evaluation of Looking For Raid and the loot system, we have recently implemented a change to the Looking For Raid Need Plus system. Weapons, trinkets, rings, neck pieces, shields, offhand items, and the Robe of Glowing Stone are now class-restricted to their intended users. With the speed at which a Raid Finder group moves through a zone, we’ve found that it makes it challenging for players to evaluate loot decisions – by class restricting these items, we hope that the natural behavior will have a more positive set of results for everyone involved. This change will not apply to normal or heroic raid or dungeon loot rules.

Raid Finder and Need Plus are both very new systems, and we’re working to iterate on these systems rapidly to ensure that everyone has the best possible experience as we learn more about how players are using the system. Please keep in mind that this system is not considered complete and we have further plans to improve upon it within Mists of Pandaria.

If you looted an item from Looking for Raid which replaced another and you need Game Master assistance to recover your old item, please place a petition with the new item name, that you can no longer use it - and the old item name you need restored. For more information on the affected items, please visit the Customer Support forums here- http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3729953854#1

We apologize for the inconvenience.


If the point was to make people make evaluate loot decisions, this is not a fix.

If you compared two pieces of equipment, and picked the piece because it was an overall improvement - then this 'fix' actually PUNISHES people who 'evaluated loot decision'.

Either the reason being given (evaluate loot decisions) is a smokescreen, or the fix makes the problem worse. This is not a fix.
If the point was to make people make evaluate loot decisions, this is not a fix.

If you compared two pieces of equipment, and picked the piece because it was an overall improvement - then this 'fix' actually PUNISHES people who 'evaluated loot decision'.

Either the reason being given (evaluate loot decisions) is a smokescreen, or the fix makes the problem worse. This is not a fix.


You're a mage. You do not use spirit. Therefore, you should not be able to use a cloth chestpiece that has spirit on it. Period, end of statement. I don't care if it's better because it's higher item level, it's not an item you want to keep long-term (as you would immediately replace it with a proper chest), so you shouldn't get to use it at all.

The exact same thing applies to the Seal of Primordial Shadows; I should not be able to use it, because it has expertise on it, which is useless to me.

The problem is not that you cannot use the spirit chest, but that Blizzard chose to implement only 8 bosses and therefore did not have enough room to put in enough different drops, leaving you without a viable non-spirit chest other than your tier or valor point options. If Blizzard had not given us 2/3 of the bosses that you should have in a proper raid tier, you'd probably have other options to go for (and I might have a necklace or cloak option from the raid).


Still, this is a step in the right direction, and I'm glad to see it done. There are still issues of course, but I expect those to be worked out in time (unless they keep giving us partial raid tiers with too few bosses, in which case lack of proper itemization will always be an issue).
Forum full of loot !@#$%s... you still have a two hour window in which you can trade items with someone else who was eligible... talk things out like adults and if you make a valid case there are those who would gladly give up the item.
As a part of the on-going evaluation of Looking For Raid and the loot system, we have recently implemented a change to the Looking For Raid Need Plus system. Weapons, trinkets, rings, neck pieces, shields, offhand items, and the Robe of Glowing Stone are now class-restricted to their intended users. With the speed at which a Raid Finder group moves through a zone, we’ve found that it makes it challenging for players to evaluate loot decisions – by class restricting these items, we hope that the natural behavior will have a more positive set of results for everyone involved. This change will not apply to normal or heroic raid or dungeon loot rules.

Raid Finder and Need Plus are both very new systems, and we’re working to iterate on these systems rapidly to ensure that everyone has the best possible experience as we learn more about how players are using the system. Please keep in mind that this system is not considered complete and we have further plans to improve upon it within Mists of Pandaria.

If you looted an item from Looking for Raid which replaced another and you need Game Master assistance to recover your old item, please place a petition with the new item name, that you can no longer use it - and the old item name you need restored. For more information on the affected items, please visit the Customer Support forums here- http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3729953854#1

We apologize for the inconvenience.


If the point was to make people make evaluate loot decisions, this is not a fix.

If you compared two pieces of equipment, and picked the piece because it was an overall improvement - then this 'fix' actually PUNISHES people who 'evaluated loot decision'.

Either the reason being given (evaluate loot decisions) is a smokescreen, or the fix makes the problem worse. This is not a fix.


and i don't think its right to take 384 gear away from us then offer to give us lower ilvl gear that we already had to compensate us, i mean wtf if i wanted to stay with my 353 robes i damn sure wouldn't have kept playing the new !@#$ to get better gear. If they are going to take 384 gear that we won away from us the least they could do is give us 384 gear back that we can use



Could the game look at a players loot history and only apply a loot bonus if the item hasn't been won before? You could make an exception for one-handed DPS weapons, of course.


should have rolled or shouldn't have rolled isn't the issue. The issue is Blizzard stealing the gear from us that we have fairly won and spent time and money enchanting, reforging, gemming and trangmog. Its just shows how little blizzard cares about its "valued" customers that have padded thier pockets for years now


Frankly, I have no sympathy for those that needed on items that are not designed for their class . . . such as a DK rolling on an agility item. They took a gamble to need on a less than optimal item and it didn't pay off. I call it Karma. And that DK may have "fairly" won the item but he should never had the opportunity to win the item.

I never needed on the Spirit chest when running my Mage through LFG because I knew that I should never get the bonus roll on any spirit item. I would never get away with that in my regular raid team and I don't see why it would be fine to do so in LFG. Just because one "can" roll on an item and it may be a temporary upgrade doesn't mean they should or that Blizz intended for that to happen.

Could my Mage use the extra gem slots? Hell ya but my Raid leader would squash that idea and our priest healer would be sure to send fewer heals my way to teach me a lesson. And right now, I'm thinking I made the right decision to not roll need and waste my gold. Sometimes doing the right thing does pay off.
If the point was to make people make evaluate loot decisions, this is not a fix.

If you compared two pieces of equipment, and picked the piece because it was an overall improvement - then this 'fix' actually PUNISHES people who 'evaluated loot decision'.

Either the reason being given (evaluate loot decisions) is a smokescreen, or the fix makes the problem worse. This is not a fix.


You're a mage. You do not use spirit. Therefore, you should not be able to use a cloth chestpiece that has spirit on it. Period, end of statement. I don't care if it's better because it's higher item level, it's not an item you want to keep long-term (as you would immediately replace it with a proper chest), so you shouldn't get to use it at all.

The exact same thing applies to the Seal of Primordial Shadows; I should not be able to use it, because it has expertise on it, which is useless to me.

The problem is not that you cannot use the spirit chest, but that Blizzard chose to implement only 8 bosses and therefore did not have enough room to put in enough different drops, leaving you without a viable non-spirit chest other than your tier or valor point options. If Blizzard had not given us 2/3 of the bosses that you should have in a proper raid tier, you'd probably have other options to go for (and I might have a necklace or cloak option from the raid).


Still, this is a step in the right direction, and I'm glad to see it done. There are still issues of course, but I expect those to be worked out in time (unless they keep giving us partial raid tiers with too few bosses, in which case lack of proper itemization will always be an issue).


Mages have always used spirit gear - not because it was a higher item level, but because the other stats might be preferential. Is it ideal? No - that's why I said this fails in terms of making people evaluate the loot.
If truly you guys rolled need on spirit gear for a temporary ghetto upgrade after everyone else passed, then that kind of stinks. The apology for your inconvenience is already at the top of the thread.

If you rolled need on spirit gear as a mage or warlock when any conceivable other class could have used it, though, justice has been served.
If truly you guys rolled need on spirit gear for a temporary ghetto upgrade after everyone else passed, then that kind of stinks. The apology for your inconvenience is already at the top of the thread.

If you rolled need on spirit gear as a mage or warlock when any conceivable other class could have used it, though, justice has been served.


Why? Mages and Warlocks need Intellect (and Stamina). If I need Hit and Haste, would like to trade out a blue and yellow socket for three reds, and the item is not class specific, it's not a question of 'justice' - I made a value judgement to accept some Spirit on the piece, which is exactly what Blizzard's official position claims they WANT us to do.

Is it going to be a permanent upgrade on my mage? No. But it is unlikely to be a permanent upgrade for a Priest either. Both of us would be using it as a stepping stone to our real raid drops.


should have rolled or shouldn't have rolled isn't the issue. The issue is Blizzard stealing the gear from us that we have fairly won and spent time and money enchanting, reforging, gemming and trangmog. Its just shows how little blizzard cares about its "valued" customers that have padded thier pockets for years now


Frankly, I have no sympathy for those that needed on items that are not designed for their class . . . such as a DK rolling on an agility item. They took a gamble to need on a less than optimal item and it didn't pay off. I call it Karma. And that DK may have "fairly" won the item but he should never had the opportunity to win the item.

I never needed on the Spirit chest when running my Mage through LFG because I knew that I should never get the bonus roll on any spirit item. I would never get away with that in my regular raid team and I don't see why it would be fine to do so in LFG. Just because one "can" roll on an item and it may be a temporary upgrade doesn't mean they should or that Blizz intended for that to happen.

Could my Mage use the extra gem slots? Hell ya but my Raid leader would squash that idea and our priest healer would be sure to send fewer heals my way to teach me a lesson. And right now, I'm thinking I made the right decision to not roll need and waste my gold. Sometimes doing the right thing does pay off.


My raid group probably wouldn't stand for dps'ing 4 of the tentacles on Deathwing's back simultaneously. But that sure can happen with the raid finder. It's a different animal. There's no point in trying to conform the rules of random raid groups to organized raid groups.
Is this change retroactive, ie if last week I lost a roll on a strength sword to a hunter (which now can't be equipped by said hunter), can I get it back?
So, how about this for fair: Ring off Morchok drops. Haste/spirit. Good combination for shadow priest. But, due to this change, apparently, shadow priests don't get the role bonus


No.

Here is the result of that change:

Signet of Suturing - Druid, Paladin, Priest, Shaman


The role bonus is unaffected.


That's how it SHOULD be. That's not how it IS. I rolled, and did not get the role bonus. On an item that SHOULD be flagged for both dps priests, and healing priests (as well as druids/shamans/paladins). They flagged that ring as HEALER, for some reason.

edit: This specific item has been flagged as a healer ring since LFR release. DPS do not receive the role bonus on it at all, never have. But spirit is a shadow priest's (and a balance druid/elemental shaman's) hit. That's cool, but they get a bonus on "our" "non-spirit" ring.
12/13/2011 06:04 PMPosted by Vreis
Is this change retroactive, ie if last week I lost a roll on a strength sword to a hunter (which now can't be equipped by said hunter), can I get it back?


It is retroactive, and it isn't.

If you have the piece, and they re-assign it - you lose the ability to use it.

If you didn't have the piece - you don't get it.


Another level on which this 'fix' doesn't 'fix' anything.
Doesn't enhancement use Agi?


He said elemental, not enhancement.
enhancement best in slot mainhand weapon was actually a caster mace last tier..........

lol





but anyways about the OP... ......... sigh.... Why not fix the button instead of making it class restictive?

example... rogues... daggers... rogue only daggers.. o-0 lawl? isnt that what the legendary is for?

yes I know shaman arent supposed to use daggers(too fast) but.. if.. nothing else drops and that is the best that they can see.... use the dagger...

but.. they cant because of the rogue only wep..

(had two enhancement shaman who WANTED to use the dagger... and wanted to roll on it... and the rogues in the raid already had fear and vengance(legendry daggers) so they would have given if possible...)

so... the items went to DE.. the shaman tried to greed but lost.. which is fine.. but.. even if they had somehow beat the other 23 other people in raid for DE/greed.... they wouldnt be able to wield them..


same with warrior/pally/dk with the polearm.. I 100% agree with making it agi users only are able to need on it... but ... what happens when all the agi users have them already? (and a warrior/pally/dk wants to use it as an upgrade... )

Since the LFR system is built to provide players who not usually raid a way to get into it.... ... should just make it so only the specific categories can need on it.. (str on str , agi on agi.. etc.) but should allow them to use the opposites on greed roll...

yes right now it is 'oh but nobody is going to pass.... nobody is going to win on greed roll' ... ... the daggers would have been... (rogue woulda needed it for them and passed it actually..)

not to mention the fact that ... That polearm is hilarious xD and I wouldnt mind using it as a 'fun' item when clearing old content on my warrior/dk/paladin (IF.... i won it on a greed roll)



not to mention the actual gear... (priest only robe... if it dropped and no priests were there? .... *reforge spirit to ___ and benefit from 3 gem slots till tier drops.... *


If the point was to make people make evaluate loot decisions, this is not a fix.

If you compared two pieces of equipment, and picked the piece because it was an overall improvement - then this 'fix' actually PUNISHES people who 'evaluated loot decision'.

Either the reason being given (evaluate loot decisions) is a smokescreen, or the fix makes the problem worse. This is not a fix.


and i don't think its right to take 384 gear away from us then offer to give us lower ilvl gear that we already had to compensate us, i mean wtf if i wanted to stay with my 353 robes i damn sure wouldn't have kept playing the new !@#$ to get better gear. If they are going to take 384 gear that we won away from us the least they could do is give us 384 gear back that we can use
... this...
I had one the 1h axe in a raid with no rogue and the ele/ resto shaman had no interest on. This axe was not 100% ideal for me but was a very nice improvement over my previous weapon. Blizzard did not take any steps or even consider us players who had won some of these items that were upgrades, but weren't the 100% ideal upgrade for the class. I would like to see a smarter roll bonus system that applies higher roll bonuses to people of the proper spec and class than simply print the intended classes on the item itself, this completely destroys any secondary uses for items when the primary users already own the item, which should start to happen down the road, or if the indented classes are not present in the raid.

Even further down the road, this also eliminates any chance of these items being won to be transmogrified when the LFR is mostly just for valor capping; looks like we will be seeing a lot of maelstroms.
12/13/2011 05:25 PMPosted by Alsonynn
talk things out like adults


Difficult for some to do that while posting their rants on forums. Causes headaches.
This may be a good change from this patch forward but retroactive-screwing people who won those items and wearing it in good faith is not fair.

Couldn't you change the item number for the new class-specific items and leave the old ones alone? Or at least restore their gold/gems/enchant scroll?

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