"I already have a job."

General Discussion
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I think i'll stick my 2cents in here. Me i wanna see the game go back to the BC still of getting rep. Where we gotta farm for and more farming days on end to hit exalted with a faction. Also i wanna see the amount of dailies get a drop back down to 10 dailies max..

This is what i call fun in a game it's what kepted me coming back to play.

Before someone says that i got to much time on my hands because i love that style of game play. i do got a job and i gotta travel almost 2hrs to get to my job, then put 8hrs of hard work in, then drive another almost 2hrs to get home.


I want to beat Final Fantasy.

But in order to do that i have to spend X time doing Y thing to get Z result.

Welcome to everything in life, do you need a map? I hope not because they don't make maps.

FF went into the crapper after 10...and many old school FF fans would say after 6. FFXI was a horrible grindfest of epic proportions that actively punished you if you wanted to do anything, at all, ever (I know, I played it religiously for two years before it finally broke my spirit), and FFXIV is...well, finally reaching beta stage, after being live for a year, sooo you might wanna find a better analogy.

Anyway, dailies are dated. They're not bad for filler content, and all, something to do in lieu of something more interesting to do, but that's how they should remain -- completely optional, and diverse enough to allow different options on how to do it. Molten Front was too gated; if each round of dailies had furthered the story, even a little, it would have made the slow crawl of it more enjoyable.


Agreed. The biggest lunch bag letdown of WoW is the lack of change or impact any of us feel we have in this world. Not to mention the quests are all over the place as well. By 85 we should be doing massive world changing quests that aren't collecting poop ( been done to death in this game already ) or killing (X) mountain lions for pelts. Stuff that makes sense at lowbie levels but doesn't seem fitting that a champion would be doing. Great we killed Deathwing, now i'm off to grind out mobs for pelts. There's no real feeling that we as a character are heading to greater things. Specially when NPC's fail to recognize us as they are asking us to do mundane tasks.
12/21/2011 06:46 PMPosted by Mephology
Want to know a truly non-linear game? Skyrim. Best example.


I don't expect Blizzard to change their zone=specific levels architecture but within a zone, I hope they learn something from Skyrim. Questing in that game is a marvelous piece of business.
Dailies and grinding. You want X, you have to perform Y dailies for Z period of time. You grind rep and gold and then you get what you want. This is what I explained.

"But that's just like a job. I already have a job. When can we do something fun?"


Really, this is what I tell the guild when they ask me to wipe with them. The game offers many things that don't feel like jobs. If you feel like you are going through drudgery, only you can release yourself from that.
12/21/2011 06:59 PMPosted by Moanshadow
Want to know a truly non-linear game? Skyrim. Best example.


I don't expect Blizzard to change their zone=specific levels architecture but within a zone, I hope they learn something from Skyrim. Questing in that game is a marvelous piece of business.


Aye nor do i. But they can come alot farther with quests than they are now. The key word is: Effort. There wasn't near as much put into Cataclysm and i wonder how MoP will go with Blizzard being keen on recycling content and items. We going to be fighting an undead Deathwing?
12/21/2011 06:46 PMPosted by Mephology
Not always true. You COULD stick to the linear quest to quest to quest and beat the game in 30 hours missing key characters, pieces of equipment and materia specially ones such as Knights of the Round.


Again, choices like going after Knights of the Round didn't come into play until near end-game. Anything pre-airship in FF games is fairly linear,

12/21/2011 06:46 PMPosted by Mephology
Sure you could show up doing the bare bones linear run but when you add more characters that you didn't have to grab such as Yuffie or Vincent the story changed slightly to allow for them. In WoW there's nothing of the sort. Its straight A-B, same experience everyone else had.


You have two entirely different continents you can choose to play from in WoW. You think two bonus characters in FF7 plus the occasional optional piece of materia makes for a more non-linear presentation?

In WoW I can stick mainly to Kalimdor for most of my leveling, or mainly to Eastern Kingdoms. There are entire areas you can skip in WoW, FF7 you always have to go through Midgar, then go to town A, then B, etc.

12/21/2011 06:46 PMPosted by Mephology
Want to know a truly non-linear game? Skyrim. Best example.


Or any Bethesda game, which only proves how linear every FF game really is in comparison.
And furthermore, what would be a better design for this type of structure?


Infinite content.

It's easy to design a better system than dailies, pump out infinite amounts of content, it's just not feasible to pull off. Some people want to spend more time in the game than others, maybe even every day, and we want to make sure they have something to do. While we'd love for that to be fresh and unique content every time, it's simply not feasible. Thus, dailies. Give people something to do each time they log in (if they choose to do so every day).

Not to toot the Mists of Pandaria horn too hard, but I think our general zone design, daily, and scenario approach is pretty solid. Part of what makes dailies a bit tedious, aside from being tedious, is the rewards are desired but may not always quite fit the time investment. I see quite a bit of that being solved and making sure if you're logging in to do some dailies or scenarios, you feel like you made a good chunk of progress toward advancing your character.


While I see where you're going, as a programmer, your premise is patently false. In fact, a computer game is EXACTLY the place that can at least SIMULATE infinite content, and it is, in general, not difficult to do. It requires some planning and detail, but much less than creating an expansion, for instance, or possibly even than creating a major raid tier patch. I have done something exactly similar for a project I'm working on, so it's not conjecture.

Take Fireland dailies, for instance. There is some randomness, but you get the same set of quests, even if not the same every day. However, you could create a framework for generating daily quests, and then set up a variety of rules and objectives, and simply generate a new unique set of quests each day. The actual coding involved in this is trivial to anyone who has worked in game design, and the basic code to generate the quests could likely be done by a senior intern. The real issue would be generating the content (quest dialogue, etc), but I'm going to be honest, I can and have written a hundred pages of dialogue in a day, and I'm one person.

The fact of the matter is, it isn't rocket surgery, and if you asked your coders, they would likely tell you the same. If they don't, hire new coders.
If you already have a job, you already have a source of income. The only thing is, blizzard isn't that fond of obtaining gold that way.

WTB real money AH in D3 already.
To expand on it, now that I'm thinking about it, dynamically generated quests could, depending on your game engine, include quests entirely unique to the character, so even if you have 4 characters to run dailies on, the dailies could be different for each.

In addition, dynamic quests allow opportunities for exploration and exposure of the game world to players who might otherwise stay in one area. You could have a quest send you to Badlands one moment, off to Netherstorm the next, and into Winterspring a third.

Obviously, this would not be something to use for your general quests, but for 'daily hubs', this is certainly one solution.
Again, choices like going after Knights of the Round didn't come into play until near end-game. Anything pre-airship in FF games is fairly linear,


Why does that pertain to the discussion?

Sure pre-airship is pretty linear and most FF games actually follow that model (follow the story until here--> now fly around and do whatever until you decide to finish the game) but it isn't repititive. There is no comparison to the end game of wow. Pre-airhsip doesn't consist of logging in to watch cloud agree to be Aeris' body guard every day for 2 weeks until you progress to watching cloud be Aeris' body guard and then blowing up the Mako reactor. Your reward for grinding through the "quests" (ie. dungeon/area) is the next part of the story. Plus you only do each "grind" once until you move on to something a little bit different. Different puzzles, different enemies.

Daily quests aren't boring because their linear. It's because they are repetitive (and you have to do them every single day to really get anywhere anytime soon) and for some the reward isn't worth the length of the grind.
Back when I cared enough to do Dailies(on three toons) I had them done in about twenty-forty minutes, time to read some of a book while murdering some easy mobs
Infinite content.

It's easy to design a better system than dailies, pump out infinite amounts of content, it's just not feasible to pull off. Some people want to spend more time in the game than others, maybe even every day, and we want to make sure they have something to do. While we'd love for that to be fresh and unique content every time, it's simply not feasible. Thus, dailies. Give people something to do each time they log in (if they choose to do so every day).

Not to toot the Mists of Pandaria horn too hard, but I think our general zone design, daily, and scenario approach is pretty solid. Part of what makes dailies a bit tedious, aside from being tedious, is the rewards are desired but may not always quite fit the time investment. I see quite a bit of that being solved and making sure if you're logging in to do some dailies or scenarios, you feel like you made a good chunk of progress toward advancing your character.


Well so long as were working with this how about we include quests that take like the course of a week or something to do like attack a series of Alliance/Horde outposts or take a base or capture resources. Something that would take a group to do and would reward rep with a pvp faction or honor idk.

I mean I don't want the same old dailes if we must get them. I liked wacking pygmies in Ramkahan but even that got old. Pvp can get old but you do come across fun fights sometimes and imo using a pvp daily to pit horde vs alliance groups against each other for a daily or weekly objective with a tangible reward for that faction would be a welcome change. I don't know how this would work with the unbalanced numbers in servers these days though.

i have 101 mount's, decent gear(i've recently just gotton back into raiding), and i've never done something i didn't want to do, so, you my friend the OP, need to reconsider your WOW routine, my wow day begins with a little auction fiddling, some valor capping on whatever 85 i feel like dungeoning that day with, and then i try to find a raid, or something else productive to do. i am rarely bored this way.
Things that would make this game alot better.

Randomness, both in the 'world', that is places other than instances. And in instances. Why are they constantly the exact same thing? With the same mobs? Different bosses isnt what I am talking about, but just changing things up, adding a need to do more than auto pilot.

Scaled instances? player scaleable instances? 2 player, 4 player, 7 player? instances that change depending on class group structure, so that you need to actually use class abilities sometimes? How about an area that opens up if rogues are involed, that they need to sneak in, use their skills and be the 'lead' for the group?

Tank/Dps/Heals is also kinda... well boring, why not have some instances where the 'tank' depends on the boss? Got a mage? Have a boss that works around mage abilities, and the mage has to control the encounter?... etc...

Its all so static. There is no 'world' in this game. Its a themepark, but the 4 rides are 7 years old, and we can only have so much fun on a roller coaster before we start to fall asleep on them.
12/21/2011 03:37 PMPosted by Bashiok
It's easy to design a better system than dailies, pump out infinite amounts of content, it's just not feasible to pull off. Some people want to spend more time in the game than others, maybe even every day, and we want to make sure they have something to do. While we'd love for that to be fresh and unique content every time, it's simply not feasible. Thus, dailies. Give people something to do each time they log in (if they choose to do so every day).


Create a sandbox mode where players create their own content and then upload it and get credit for creating it?
OP made a valid point, he was frustrated and posted his thoughts on the forums

Members of the community, especially MVP's , shouldn't be so quick too jump down his throat

I look forward to seeing some of the ideas for MoP however. Scenarios sound really fun :)

Dailies are optional, after I got my Molten Front dailies done and got all the achievements I just quit doing them for a while, but soon I was spending more money than I was making, so I went back to doing them.

If you don't want to do dailies, don't do them. You just won't have money either. Sure you could go do something with your professions, but you know what? Those are like jobs too! Hence the name "professions"

Dailies are optional, after I got my Molten Front dailies done and got all the achievements I just quit doing them for a while, but soon I was spending more money than I was making, so I went back to doing them.

If you don't want to do dailies, don't do them. You just won't have money either. Sure you could go do something with your professions, but you know what? Those are like jobs too! Hence the name "professions"


Lol? 'You dont have to do them! (But you have to do them!)'

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