"I already have a job."

General Discussion
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Dailies are a fine balance between time spent & reward earned. For me, the Argent Tourny dailies still exceed that threshold (most days) while the Firelands dailies do not. I get them done in well under 30 minutes, make the little bit of gold they pay, and sell the pets I earn about twice a week for a bunch of extra gold. Including the pet revenue, they pay much better than the Firelands ones.

So making something we can buy & sell with the Marks of the World Tree, which has been suggested to death, would be a way for Bliz to make the Firelands ones more worthwhile for those who have unlocked all of the vendors.
Can I be honest? Of course I can.

I really don't get half of the complaints that are leveled at WoW, and I've been playing solidly for a year and have played various iterations over the years. In my opinion, WoW is the best it's been and it really feels like Blizzard has gotten into a groove that works. I believe in order to enjoy WoW to the fullest, you need to balance between the actual, physical game and its mechanics with the lore and story behind it.

I remember when Fallout 3 first came out, another friend of mine bought it the same time I did. While I hopped right into the game and made decisions about my character's development on the fly, said friend actually mathematically mapped out the best and most ideal "build" for the game. No game is purely numbers, nor purely story. When you focus too much on one or the other, you will always find something lacking.
12/21/2011 03:37 PMPosted by Bashiok
And furthermore, what would be a better design for this type of structure?


Infinite content.

It's easy to design a better system than dailies, pump out infinite amounts of content, it's just not feasible to pull off. Some people want to spend more time in the game than others, maybe even every day, and we want to make sure they have something to do. While we'd love for that to be fresh and unique content every time, it's simply not feasible. Thus, dailies. Give people something to do each time they log in (if they choose to do so every day).

Not to toot the Mists of Pandaria horn too hard, but I think our general zone design, daily, and scenario approach is pretty solid. Part of what makes dailies a bit tedious, aside from being tedious, is the rewards are desired but may not always quite fit the time investment. I see quite a bit of that being solved and making sure if you're logging in to do some dailies or scenarios, you feel like you made a good chunk of progress toward advancing your character.


It is too late, really, but if the development path didn't go out of their way to trivialize and invalidate old content there would be a lot more for people to do. WoW had its roots in Everquest, so hopefully this isn't too far of a stretch for an example. Back then you would often see people raiding an entire expansion behind to help gear up for the current expansion. There were still items worth getting from quests an expansion or two behind as well (Coldain Rings and Shawls were still quite popular up until the Planes, if I'm not mistaken). The developers continued to add content, but they made sure that content would work with what was already there instead of replacing all of the content with new every time.

Instead what we have here is the base game, Outland, and Northrend as nothing more but something that everyone wants to skip past instead of build in parts of the progression. Then the only development route is to expedite the trip through five whole years worth of developed content instead of experience it. What if, for example, there were still reasons to reach exalted with the Argent Crusade and Cenarion Circle? What if the gear from Icecrown was necessary to be able to survive in Twilight Highlands instead of being replaced with greens from random mob kills? Hours upon hours of development time went into so much content that is unseen and skipped by so many. What if the gear from Firelands wasn't totally invalidated by loot from Looking For Raid? Would servers begin to see pickup groups of old content and rebuild the sense of community LFD and LFR have stripped from them? There certainly would be plenty more content.

Over the course of the past decade many MMO style games went that route and didn't have these problems. Other games chose a path similar to World of Warcraft's, but delivered content faster than in 8 month chunks. World of Warcraft, particularly in the Cataclysm era, has chosen to do neither - and that is likely part (along with many other reasons) why we have watched the player base hemorrhage over the past year.

Its too late now, but hopefully the developers will be able to realize these mistakes and fix them for Titan or whatever their next project is.


"The Task at Hand" Complete at least 3 different battleground tasks (that is, objective contributions, not just racking up damage and healing numbers) and win.
"Behind Enemy Lines" Kill at least 15 members of the enemy faction in X region. Player and PvP-marked non-player targets count toward this total.
"Black Gryphon Down" (85 only!!) Kill an enemy Flight Master. You may want to call for backup.

I'd wager that a decent proportion of the playerbases response to this will either be to ignore it, or do what they do whenever someone wants a Halaa pvp token mount...


The idea is really to give people options; and if the carrot is tasty enough (say an Account Bound token that can be used for even a slight boost to a reputation or skill points in a profession,) people will do it. They might even roll alts to take advantage of it.
12/21/2011 02:03 PMPosted by Simplyred
That's what gravitates me to PvP. Fighting live people adds a kind of randomness that NPCs can't give.


I like to PVP every once in a while. I like the adrenaline rush I get even if I'm the one getting my butt handed :P
Personally I like doing my dailies and ganking every Gnome I see.
I guess none of you guys played back in early BC/Vanilla where making money through professions only was a pain in the rear. And for raiders who had to repair constantly, enchant their own gear, bring like 100 mana/health pots to spam, etc., gold was not easy to come by. So people complained and Blizzard said here, we're going to give you quests that you can repeat an infinite amount of time. Not only will you get gold, we'll also give you a new reputation faction with some awesome loot. This started in BC and continued on through Cata. Now people are saying well I don't need all this gold and I'm too bored of dailies.

Guess what?

Blizzard gave the people what they wanted. If you don't want it anymore, then don't do it anymore. Go hustle the AH or something. Don't complain about a feature Blizzard went out of their way to provide for a good chunk of their paying customers.

WoW doesn't have to be a job, nor should it be. It's a game, meant for enjoyment. If you are forcing yourself to play a certain way to make the game more of a chore than a means of entertainment, then STOP PLAYING THAT WAY. Simple.
You think this is grinding...go back to FFI and FFII, not to mention KH on Proud. I remember so many days of straight wandering in a wilderness grinding for Lich or Omega or some other boss.
Name one thing in the world that doesn't have an effort:yield. My body's hungry. I'm not spending X time every day just to stay alive; I already have a job!

I continue to enjoy WOW. Since the release of cata, I've mostly done BC and WLK stuff. In the past three weeks, I haven't touched a char above 40. In the past six weeks, I haven't touched a char above 75. Most of the time I've played in the past couple weeks has NOT been on the server where I have a full heirloom set and over 100k gold.

If you don't enjoy something, you don't enjoy it. If you continue to do something you don't enjoy, it's not that thing's fault, it's your own shortsightedness. There's NOTHING in WOW that is required.
Welcome to MMOs
Dailies and grinding. You want X, you have to perform Y dailies for Z period of time. You grind rep and gold and then you get what you want. This is what I explained.

"But that's just like a job. I already have a job. When can we do something fun?"

Uh huh...

Brilliant game design.


Your problem seems to be more with life than with wow.

You are complaining but without explaining what, to you, is entertaining and not grinding.
Your description above can be anything that you do in life since you perform most actions expecting some kind of results at the end.

Play basketball. Oh, you have to get the ball, run, jump and get it to go through the hoop in order to get some points. Repeat it over and over again. Grinding for some points.

Everything requires actions in order to obtain an end result. What is entertaining for you may not be for someone else, but everything in life includes repetitious actions (including your job). When you pick up food with a fork and put it in your mouth and swallow....you are grinding for nutrition, I guess (smile).

Vaguery is vague and your expectations may be just a bit unrealistic.
12/21/2011 03:37 PMPosted by Bashiok
And furthermore, what would be a better design for this type of structure?


Infinite content.

It's easy to design a better system than dailies, pump out infinite amounts of content, it's just not feasible to pull off. Some people want to spend more time in the game than others, maybe even every day, and we want to make sure they have something to do. While we'd love for that to be fresh and unique content every time, it's simply not feasible. Thus, dailies. Give people something to do each time they log in (if they choose to do so every day).

Not to toot the Mists of Pandaria horn too hard, but I think our general zone design, daily, and scenario approach is pretty solid. Part of what makes dailies a bit tedious, aside from being tedious, is the rewards are desired but may not always quite fit the time investment. I see quite a bit of that being solved and making sure if you're logging in to do some dailies or scenarios, you feel like you made a good chunk of progress toward advancing your character.


Tedious is a direct result of not using game design in your game design.

Example: One of the artillery dailies where you basically click the fire button and put a ground target exactly where you want the round to hit a target. Boring. The original artillery game was fun even in its simplicity because you had wind, shot power, and angle to figure. You think angry birds would sell a bazillion copies if it instead involved the ground target daily mentioned above?

Dailies and other repetitive mechanisms get no help from the mechanics involved because those mechanics have no depth of gameplay value themselves. Go cook something? Well it involves pressing a button, and running back to the NPC. Go fish something up? Well fishing involves pressing the fish button, wait for a splash noise, and click the bobber. That's it.

Players are generally very tolerant of game design in the products they buy, but not making the effort to put in some depth doesn't help. Such as archaeology, ahem. So short answer: design mechanics that are fun and interesting instead of mere rote actions.
Its called , Free to Play. Jus like other MMOs that go downhill
LMAO: Daily dungeons? Are you joking, thats what we "USED" to have..
Wasn't Until Cata that they just trimmed it all down to 7 runs per week.
12/21/2011 04:10 PMPosted by Practical
I think what he's saying is that loot will be the same, you'll just different ways of getting it so that doing dailies isn't as monotonous as it is now. So instead of just dailies, you can do dailies and different scenarios.


I'd be thrilled if we could end up having some of the past events return. It's nice, and definitely a move forward, to have the system that is mentioned here. Still, it would be even better if we end up getting gates opened to some past events that our characters might have missed. Anything that keeps people playing would be worthwhile, imo, and it keeps past dev time from being forever lost once the event is over. Sure, it takes some current dev time (how much? not sure if there's a spot remaining on servers for old events), but it could be worth it. I figure a good number of people still want that Argent Dawn tabard.
Dailies and grinding. You want X, you have to perform Y dailies for Z period of time. You grind rep and gold and then you get what you want. This is what I explained.

"But that's just like a job. I already have a job. When can we do something fun?"

Uh huh...

Brilliant game design.


you know you don't HAVE to play the game. In fact you don't even HAVE to do the dailies every day. I don't I do them when I'm bored and I'm tired of doing Dungeons with loser pugs. There are a ton of things to do to waste your free time while your in the game.
Infinite content.

It's easy to design a better system than dailies, pump out infinite amounts of content, it's just not feasible to pull off. Some people want to spend more time in the game than others, maybe even every day, and we want to make sure they have something to do. While we'd love for that to be fresh and unique content every time, it's simply not feasible. Thus, dailies. Give people something to do each time they log in (if they choose to do so every day).

Not to toot the Mists of Pandaria horn too hard, but I think our general zone design, daily, and scenario approach is pretty solid. Part of what makes dailies a bit tedious, aside from being tedious, is the rewards are desired but may not always quite fit the time investment. I see quite a bit of that being solved and making sure if you're logging in to do some dailies or scenarios, you feel like you made a good chunk of progress toward advancing your character.

actually, if the game allowed for guild cities and the motivations to obtain/attack/defend them... then the infinite content would come from the PLAYERS

ie:
cities founded using world limited boss drops...
able to create special buildings also built using plans dropped from some boss...
which create high end weapons and gear...
gear that is so high end, it only lasts 7-10 days before reverting to dust...
thereby motivating the guild to maintain control of the city.
all construction would require resources found in far-off locations prompting travel and instances runs

i could go on, but the real question is... is Blizz interested in allowing everyone to choose their daily activities... or do they want us all to focus on the same daily tasks
12/21/2011 02:13 PMPosted by Magnijung
If you want to do what ever you like go play some thing with cheat codes.


I suppose those of you pushing an attitude like this never even look at the menu when you go to a restaurant. You just take what they feed you?

"This appetizer was very cold." -> "You don't have to order or eat those."

"This steak is chewy." -> "We wanted it to last longer for you."

"This desert is bland." -> "We know what's best and we are looking out for you."

Finally,

"So tonight's meal wasn't great. Just wait until you see what we have on the menu next summer."

I seriously doubt any of you would accept this from a restaurant, yet you claim we must accept it here if we keep playing. How about this little thing called responding to your customers?

(Yeah I am violating my "stay away" rule here. I got hooked into reading this from a WoW Insider post.)

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