Cut down on the spoonfed storytelling in MoP.

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For me, at least, it's not only the dungeons. The whole questing experience in Cataclysm is akin to watching a movie. Nice the first time, bored me to tears subsequent times. I sincerely preferred WotLK regarding questing and dungeons.

01/04/2012 10:37 AMPosted by Nethaera
That said, I can't say that we'll do the same for the current dungeons (allowing the "skip"), but I can say that we'll continue to take constructive feedback on these aspects of the game as often as we can. We want to make sure we're giving the story that people want, while still making sure it's as fun as possible to be a part of it.


I can see two "fixes" for this:

- Move as much of the "stay a while and listen" kind of story out of group play and into solo content. Group content is often done under pressure by players that don't care at all about the story and just want to skip it all, whereas solo content is done at the player's leisure.

- Add ways, for players that have already beaten the content, to see the most important bits of story again. Perhaps similar to that plaque in the center of Dalaran, but using the game engine like you did in the dream scenes. This way, you could even have the skip active from the start.
01/04/2012 11:06 AMPosted by Vesfor
I also agree with the sentiment that the lines are extremely cheesy with mediocre acting...

...at best.
It's like they grabbed a bunch of acting school rejects, forced them to watch a montage of all the worst overacted villain monologues from every 80s cartoon ever, and said "I want you to sound exactly like that."
01/04/2012 10:37 AMPosted by Nethaera
Many players have expressed that they have concerns over too much story having to be found outside the game and not enough in the game


You guys really need to work on this, because the majority of the major story progression points in Cata are found outside the games in novels we the players have to buy if we want to know everything that's going on in the game we're already paying to play.

01/04/2012 10:37 AMPosted by Nethaera
Second, we've heard (as you've stated) that once through, it's not as fun the second time.


Maybe it's not but it's not such a grand inconvenience that it should be skippable just because players can't wait one minute for the RP to wrap up. Allowing the Deathwing scene to be skipped in WoE was a pretty big mistake in that vein.
01/04/2012 09:44 AMPosted by Calciumplus
I want to claw my eardrums out every time I hear the first boss in the third dungeon talk about Thrall the "shaaaaaaaaman".


At least they at least pronounce it right this time around. Rag had it wrong the whole time!
talk about Thrall the "shaaaaaaaaman".


Yooooouuuu aaaaare aaaa meeeeerreeeee mooooortaaaaal.










*Deep breath*










Iiiiit iiiissss tiiiiime, yooo...



Okay, I'm kidding.

Seriously, I agree. Also, not being able to skip certain cutscenes is rather bothersome, too. Ie, when getting set up in Hyjal, and I've just whacked Lycanthoth to "free" the spirit of Goldrinn - I want to skip the bit with me riding on Goldrinn's back, go up to the shrine, etc etc...

It was cool the first time - but when I have 10x 85's, I just want to get on with it.

EDIT 1: See also: getting set up in Vashj'ir.

EDIT 2:
POWA!


That guy, too.
Needs less cheesy comic inspired lines and more, actual intriguing and well thought out lines.

We don't need "You haven't heard the last of me!" "I'll stop you, fool!". We need some actual competitive writing.


It might be nice to have a set of similar, but different lines that are randomly chosen each time you run it. That way each time it feels a little bit different. I don't raid much these days, but I remember wiping repeatedly on the fourth boss in ICC (after the airship... his name escapes me) and having to listen to the intro dialogue over and over again. It would be nice to have it be a little different each time especially in the repeated wipes case.

Taking it one step further, it would be even cooler if they say something funny after like 5 wipes or so (you know like when you repeatedly click on the same unit in Warcraft 3). At least then your group can get some laughs at its own expense. Your group is likely losing its motivation at that point and could use some humor if nothing else. It would have one more added benefit of making the game feel *slightly* more realistic and less scripted (Illidan probably wouldn't say the same thing to your group after you're back for the second attempt... let alone the eight).
The only quest and story I found a bit umm, painful, was the entire 'Elemental Bonds' quest. It just seemed a bit to long and drawn out. It had a nice powerful beginning, but then began to really slog on, as you fight all the elements.

It would really benefit by being nearly cut in half, and kept a bit more intense.

It may also be just me but, the ending was a bit, err....mooshy. *cough* I didn't know Orcs were such hopeless romantics. Also I don't know why the ending scene, was not a cinematic, because it would have made more sense than them just standing there, and making the vows. It began with a bang, but ended with a shower of marshmallows.

...and Metzen, as always, delivered a solid performance as Thrall...but the dialogue during that quest (with the only exception being the fire segment)...yikes...just....yikes. >_<

Have you ever considered patching in story improvements?

If the gameplay is broken, you fix it via a patch. Well, right now, the story is broken. WoW isn't above retcons, so is it really impossible to change some of the things that just don't work?

Benedictus comes out of nowhere in Hour of Twilight. He's a major Alliance figure, but all he does is show up, gets lectured by Thrall, and dies. Have you considered patching in the original, intended Benedictus questline (the one that existed in the soundfiles from the very start of Cataclysm)?

Ultraxion's 'RP' is terrible. Not for the reasons people are giving, but because Deathwing is 'pulling an Arthas' worse than Arthas ever did. All this time, Deathwing has been plugged as this horrible monster, but here, just as the Dragon Soul is almost finished, he flies up, gives a horrid Mad Scientist rant, goes 'Get them, MY MINION!' and flies off. He's right there, in our face. He could've set us on fire. Every time Arthas did that, it was because he was intending to recruit us as soon as we were strong enough - and he never did it when we were clustered around a super-weapon ready to obliterate him.

Can you patch that to something less terrible? Deathwing's rant is completely out of character for the Cataclysm Deathwing. He's not a plotter anymore. He's a ravening monster. Ultraxion can just fly in out of nowhere.
01/04/2012 10:37 AMPosted by Nethaera
First, we've gotten lots of feedback through the years that it's difficult to learn the story of World of Warcraft. Many players have expressed that they have concerns over too much story having to be found outside the game and not enough in the game, or even not being led to the story in the game and thus missing it. Obviously, this is something we've been trying to correct where we can and trying to find a balance between the two. We're aware that Azeroth's history and story is pretty vast and with each new expansion, we're given the opportunity to expand on it even more.


There is a story here? Oh, guess I need to level a horde alt to see it. Constructive criticism: Alliance get nothing out of their questing other than "we should be ashamed about who we are" and "do nothing, wait for the horde to strike first."

Positive feedback: Escorting in dungeons is not terribly exciting, but how the quests tied in for the new instances worked really well!
01/04/2012 12:05 PMPosted by Fizzlebång
Some random big !@# dragon

Don't !@#$% about lore if you don't know lore.
Deathwing is a major lore character in Day of the Dragon, the War of the Ancient trilogy, and Beyond the Dark Portal.
And a bunch of other stuff that I can't really remember.

Or, perhaps, if all party members choose to skip it?


Guild Wars says hi and wonders why you backwards trogs didn't implement this sooner? :)


Deathwing is a major lore character in Day of the Dragon, the War of the Ancient trilogy, and Beyond the Dark Portal.
And a bunch of other stuff that I can't really remember.


Only if you read the expanded canon novels is he of any significance. He was just a reskinned Dragon Hero unit in Dark Portal. To me he feels like something they drug out obscurity.

Blizzguy #1: Okay, so...next expansion. We wanna do a revamp of the old world and we need to pick a big villain to slap on the cover.

Blizzguy #2: Alrighty. Lessee what's in the lorebox...*rummage rummage* Sargeras...no. Kil'jaeden...no. N'Zoth...no. Hey, look. Here's that old dragon, Deathchin or whatever.

Blizzguy #1: Didn't we license a novel about him or something?

Blizzguy #2: I think so. Something about the other Aspects and him being corrupted and stuff...

Blizzguy #1: *chortle* Yeah, what isn't corrupted in our product lines?

Blizzguy #2: *snerk* Tell me about it. I swear, I think someone just puts names on a dartboard and they make three tosses to see who gets the treatment next.

Blizzguy #1: *sigh* So, yeah...big evil armored dragon. Eh, I guess it works.

Blizzguy #2: Hey, maybe we can have him randomly show up and burn people to death!

Blizzguy #1: Good idea! Ooh! Ooh! And to make people care, we'll give 'em some achievement if he kills their chars!

Blizzguy #2: YEAH! God, nothing these idiots like better than achievements, am I right?

Blizzguy #1: Except complaining about crap. Ever look at the forums?

Blizzguy #2: Yeah, true...
At least the Horde has a story.

I went from helping Lady Sylvanas, herself, create an army, and wreck havoc. I was there to revive Godfrey, take Anderhol, and even find corpses to turn into the undead.

Then I rolled this Alliance character and like picked weeds or something.
You want awesome storyline go play swtor, even though i have no watched a single star movies movie (actually watched return of the sith lol). You feel as tho you are part of this epic universe and YOU are a hero. Its roleplaying part is pretty cool.

But to me WoW is more of a game that a role playing game you just want to skip the speech's and get the loot.
This is a themepark MMO, you ride the rides the developers create and play the way they want you to play. Don't like it? Go play a sandbox MMO or a MU*. It's neither a good thing nor a bad thing, just a personal preference. I don't play for story because I dislike Blizzard's current form of story telling, and coincidentally find myself logging on to play less and less every week. Tirion didn't defeat Arthas, he sat like a !@#$% in a block of ice (Hey idiot paladin, learn to bubble) while me and my guild killed him. Thrall didn't kill Deathwing, all Thrall did was prove he's bad at FPS games while me and my group did all the hard work. Maiev actually helped with Illidan, no qualms there ^_^ (though we totally could have done it without her!). When I turned in Onyxia's head, they shouted my name for all of Orgrimmar to hear. Why? Because I killed Onyxia, with my Rhok'delar, and my fire resist potions!

*puts on rose colored glasses*
One of the things I liked about vanilla was this enormous (read as no flying mounts and you actually had to travel to dungeons/raids) world, which had lots of world pvp and storylines, yes, plural. I could do the quests and read the npc flavor text about how the Dark Iron dwarves uncovered Ragnaros and the battle ensuing on Blackrock Mountain, or I could travel to Scholomance and Stratholme to do battle with minions of the Scourge. I could uncover Onyxia's plot (LFG Test of Skulls!) or I could wander into Feralas and uncover the mysteries of Dire Maul. I could stop Hakkar and battle the Qiraji. I played the story of MY character, not someone else's.

Of course, now with dungeon finder/raid finder/arena/battlegrounds, there is no world.



/rant
The lack of quest paths is rather disappointing to be honest. The only time I was amused making an alt was when I was leveling my Alliance toon in Twilight Highlands. The quests in Vash'jir, Deepholm, Uldum, and Hyjal are all the same. The only time it actually became different was in Twilight Highlands (Dmaw/Whammer).

I also miss my class quests. Perhaps if each class had a few more unique things to do while leveling making new alts wouldn't be such a pain.

As for the story telling, I do not mind so much in the 5 man dungeons. Having the raid begin while a cinematic is still playing in Spine is rather annoying though.
01/04/2012 09:44 AMPosted by Calciumplus
I want to claw my eardrums out every time I hear the first boss in the third dungeon talk about Thrall the "shaaaaaaaaman".


That boss amuses me, he's completely ridiculous
I thought the story was handled very well in Cataclysm, especially in the leveling zones.

Prior to Cataclysm, leveling in Azeroth zones was a mess. You'd just run from hub to hub and run dumb errands for people. You didn't really have a good reason apart from "I'll pay you", and so I never had much fun with the quests. But in Cataclysm, the zones have a coherent storyline and it's great. Eastern Plaguelands turned from a random mishmosh of undead related quests to a full storyline with Fiona's Caravan and the two paladin trainees. Westfall went from a zone where you collect pie ingredients and kill the occasional bandit to a whole buildup to the new Deadmines and Vanessa VanCleef. Blasted Lands actually gained quests apart from the godawful "collect these organs with a really low drop rate from the wildlife around here" and got a whole new story and a new town in Surwich.

In my opinion, being "spoonfed" a story is better than not having one at all.


I'm sorry, most of the 1-60 quests are exactly the same as they were before Cata. SOME zones got the makeovers, like Azshara and EP. But the rest is still mostly running dumb errands for people. They just made it easier to get from one place to the next, when the fun of it - at least for me - was finding the people who needed my help on my own. Not being led by the nose like it is now.

I'd rather have Cairne's death, or Thrall's abdication, or a million other SIGNIFICANT plot points in a cinematic than helped Fiona's caravan or a town full of goblin silliness. THAT is story.

Instead, we get to read it in a book. If we buy the book. I got to install Cataclysm, and bam - Cairne's dead. Thrall's gone. Here's Baine and Garrosh. *head spins* What?

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