Cut down on the spoonfed storytelling in MoP.

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Kids these days.
I play video games for the story. I LOVE how Blizzard as added more story to the Vanilla areas and the new areas as well. I use to have to go to Wowwiki to read everything about what was going on, now it's in the game and much nicer.

Ya the dungeons are a bit annoying to have to wait for the NPCs to talk in the dungeons, maybe they'll allow us to skip that in the future like they did with Culling of Stratholme.

I remember playing SNES games, not for the graphics, but for the awesome storyline and characters (Final Fantasy 6 being my all time favourite). I hardly play console games these days because the companies have to cater to the new generations with their whining and nagging "his arms look too blocky! nnyyyaahhhhh....." and so on. Ya link in Link to the Past had pink hair and there was "little details" or so "blocky and stupid looking" to kids these days, but the game was awesome!

Basically what I'm saying is: Story > Graphics.

Massively multiplayer online ROLE-PLAYING game.

Without story, you have no game.

^Also this.
MMORPG is called an RPG for a reason.
If you don't like the story, then maybe you're playing the wrong game? Go play another MMO with no story to it.

If I ever have a kid, and s/he is a gamer, I'm making them play NES games first and work their way up, so they appreciate video games more with story rather than those with graphics.

Edit> You want a free-form RPG? Maybe you're playing the wrong games. Go play Ragnarok Online or something, that one has no story to make you have to follow.
We're always open to constructive feedback as long as it stays constructive
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We want to make sure we're giving the story that people want, while still making sure it's as fun as possible to be a part of it.
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As for Mists of Pandaria and the storyline there, we definitely want to continue down the path of offering up story where we can. We feel that this can only enhance the experience of the game. We're not unaware though of the concerns on both sides of the fence.


I like the quest givers that have the little option "tell me more about such n such." And other "questions" you can ask them. That's a great way to put the story out there.

Another thing I'd like to see is something along the lines of historian NPCs in all the Inns and at various quest hubs and dungeon entrances who have information on the story, area, etc that you can "ask" them about.

These kinds of things can be very easily bypassed while also providing yet another thing to do for people who aren't in a hurry and want to get filled in on the story behind the part of the game they are playing.
I agree that the quest lines could have been more varied to help us when leveling alts. Different quest lines could simply mean different ways to achieve something. Why not give us separate paths to get the shoulder enchants in Deepholm, for example? Also, if you have to kill this NPC, why not offer 3 methods of how to kill it. It will thus make us wonder, what will happen if I choose this method, or what will this NPC say if we select this method of killing instead? By providing different ways with the same end reward, our alts will be happier in questing.

About the new heroics' dialogue, I think they are just right. They allow me a short break to up my mana, to slow down the feverish pace of tanks who I am sure are frothing at the mouth, and--yes--sometimes providing me the few crucial seconds for a quick bite or a bio break. XD

Though... I wish I could skip the tentacle p.rn after killing Lady Naz'jar. Pressing ESC doesn't do anything. :(
I don't like that you don't like the story. Best thing about this game is you are always free to do the story if you so choose and zone it it out if you so choose.

That said, I can't say that we'll do the same for the current dungeons (allowing the "skip"), but I can say that we'll continue to take constructive feedback on these aspects of the game as often as we can. We want to make sure we're giving the story that people want, while still making sure it's as fun as possible to be a part of it.


One thing I think works really well are the cinematics you can ESC out of (or like in WoE talk to the drake or take the time portal to get out of) they are "forced upon you" so new members dont get pushed past an orb that tells a story yet I can get out of them so I don't have to hear the same story 15 times a week. If you are in a group full of people who have seen it they ESC or what have you and continue on if one member wants to watch the others can't stop them so they can enjoy while the others are spared.

I think this ties the best of both worlds. What does get rather annoying are the long speeches that you can't avoid such as in ICC where you listen to them drone on and on while you fight the first pack of trash or worse yet as pointed out here HoT where you sit and get rage killed twice while to bosses feel the need to chat up thrall for what feels like 10minutes. If you made that a cinematic type situation we could sneak out of I think it would go over better while still allowing lore to be seen. ( I freaking LOVE the cinematics and speeches the first few times, honestly, but they do get tiresome).

Just my two cents...
Honestly, while WoW is a fun game (otherwise I wouldn't still be playing it), it's probably one of the worst RPG experiences I've ever had. For perspective, I started playing the day before 4.2 dropped... so I've had the joy of levelling through the current version of the game.

After playing this game for 6 months I have no idea why I'm at the Well of Time. I have no idea who Illidian is. I have no idea why Benedictus turned coat. I have no idea why I'm fighting a dragon beside an hourglass.

I have no idea why Wyrmrest Temple is important in this quest chain. I have no idea why it's in the caverns of time instead of in Northrend. I have no idea how I go straight from fighting Ultraxion to getting on an airship that just pops out of nowhere.

I have no idea why I'm fighting pirates on an airship while the worlds most powerful dragon is running away. I had no idea that we were pealing armour plating off Deathwing until someone else explained it to me. And outside of doing some random WotLC quests I have no idea who the dragon aspects are and how they are involved in the quest line.

After 6 months of playing and having "beat" Deathwing multiple times I still have no idea why I was fighting him in the first place.


WoW is the first epic fantasy game I've played where I was a side show to an NPC.

In Dragon Warrior I saved the princess, slayed the Dragon Lord and saved the world.

In Final Fantasy I slayed the four elemental fiends and went 2000 years back in time to slay Garland, thus saving the world.

In Chronotrigger I travel across time foiling evil plots, ultimately slaying Lavos and saving the world.

In Morrowind I become the Nerevarine, unite the houses and slay Dagoth Ur... thus saving the world.

In Guild Wars: Nightfall I'm the one that discovers Varesh's treachery, chases her down and ultimately defeats her... thus saving the world.

In WoW, I wonder around completing random quests that contribute nothing to the major plot line for 80 levels, then do 5 levels of plot related stuff before LFD thrusts me ahead of those questing plots and straight into the end game where I generally get to watch NPCs work to save the world, ultimately culminating in me queueing for LFR and watching NPCs I know nothing about save the world.


Honestly, now that I'm levelling an alt I understand why long time wow players don't want to be burdened with repeating the same story multiple times... and a lot of that could be alleviated by making things like reputation rewards BoA. New players should have things like attunement quests to unlock dungeons/raids and present the lore so that the experience is a little more meaningful than a simple loot grab, but once you've been attuned once on any character your entire account is attuned and you never have to grind it again if you don't want to.
Well I am tired of all these babys getting there wish and blizzard u succumbing to them.U have torn this game apart making it easier for them to steal armor steal accounts and all and all WRECK this game with there over abundance of stupidity and whinning,,i selling this account and every thing it holds if anyone has a real interest u may email me at Street_racin_lover91@yahoo.com.Blizzard Since u want to take away the difficulty and the true challenge to shut kids up then have at it but i done Star wars is out now ...and they do it then owell back to live i go..have fun with your cake walk of a mmo
Can Thrall maybe get an epic mount?

Seriously, the guy is level 85 and he's still running around in Ghost Wolf form. He doesn't even have it talented.
Ha Ha Ha I was wondering the exact same thing.
Can Thrall maybe get an epic mount?

Seriously, the guy is level 85 and he's still running around in Ghost Wolf form. He doesn't even have it talented.


LOL "doesn't even have it talented"... omg lololol I need to go to bed
01/04/2012 10:37 AMPosted by Nethaera
First, we've gotten lots of feedback through the years that it's difficult to learn the story of World of Warcraft. Many players have expressed that they have concerns over too much story having to be found outside the game and not enough in the game, or even not being led to the story in the game and thus missing it. Obviously, this is something we've been trying to correct where we can and trying to find a balance between the two. We're aware that Azeroth's history and story is pretty vast and with each new expansion, we're given the opportunity to expand on it even more.

This is why you keep the main, primary canon IN the game. There's nothing wrong with having stories outside the game, but you don't force players to read books outside the game to understand the main story.

Some examples of this are:
King Varian killed Onyxia, the players didn't actually do anything.
Cairne dies to Garrosh in a duel where Miss Grimtotem played a hand with poison.
Rhonin becoming Mary Su...pardon...becoming ruler of Dalaran.

If those were not influential players in the main storyline, it would be fine and dandy to have books about their adventures. But when they start influencing the direction of the main storyline, it's time to put the book aside and put it in the game.
Honestly, while WoW is a fun game (otherwise I wouldn't still be playing it), it's probably one of the worst RPG experiences I've ever had. For perspective, I started playing the day before 4.2 dropped... so I've had the joy of levelling through the current version of the game.

After playing this game for 6 months I have no idea why I'm at the Well of Time. I have no idea who Illidian is. I have no idea why Benedictus turned coat. I have no idea why I'm fighting a dragon beside an hourglass.

I have no idea why Wyrmrest Temple is important in this quest chain. I have no idea why it's in the caverns of time instead of in Northrend. I have no idea how I go straight from fighting Ultraxion to getting on an airship that just pops out of nowhere.

I have no idea why I'm fighting pirates on an airship while the worlds most powerful dragon is running away. I had no idea that we were pealing armour plating off Deathwing until someone else explained it to me. And outside of doing some random WotLC quests I have no idea who the dragon aspects are and how they are involved in the quest line.

After 6 months of playing and having "beat" Deathwing multiple times I still have no idea why I was fighting him in the first place.


WoW is the first epic fantasy game I've played where I was a side show to an NPC.

In Dragon Warrior I saved the princess, slayed the Dragon Lord and saved the world.

In Final Fantasy I slayed the four elemental fiends and went 2000 years back in time to slay Garland, thus saving the world.

In Chronotrigger I travel across time foiling evil plots, ultimately slaying Lavos and saving the world.

In Morrowind I become the Nerevarine, unite the houses and slay Dagoth Ur... thus saving the world.

In Guild Wars: Nightfall I'm the one that discovers Varesh's treachery, chases her down and ultimately defeats her... thus saving the world.

In WoW, I wonder around completing random quests that contribute nothing to the major plot line for 80 levels, then do 5 levels of plot related stuff before LFD thrusts me ahead of those questing plots and straight into the end game where I generally get to watch NPCs work to save the world, ultimately culminating in me queueing for LFR and watching NPCs I know nothing about save the world.


Honestly, now that I'm levelling an alt I understand why long time wow players don't want to be burdened with repeating the same story multiple times... and a lot of that could be alleviated by making things like reputation rewards BoA. New players should have things like attunement quests to unlock dungeons/raids and present the lore so that the experience is a little more meaningful than a simple loot grab, but once you've been attuned once on any character your entire account is attuned and you never have to grind it again if you don't want to.

I... I think I'm in love. I've been playing WoW for 7+ years. Got my first taste in the summer of 2004 during beta. The story drew me in, the lore, the world and after launch, the community. I knew what my goal was, why I was fighting and who I was supposed to swing my sword at and why.

Over the years, I've watched those goals get clouded, the glory of my character's actions be retconned to RandomNPC#143562.

I still don't know why I'm going to Uldum.

But I've been in other MMOs and even to this day, I know why I'm being sent to do whatever I'm being sent to do. The quests are more than one page of "I know I'm just standing here doing nothing and could easily purge my farm/land/home of these pesky rats, but I dropped my sword a couple feet over there and haven't a clue how to pick it up. Could you kill them for me? Oh, and bring my sword back to me, too?" Cmon, really?
Floralae: That's a really long post, but yeah I totally agree.

What I'd really love to see more of is storytelling during the action. The Twilight stuff does it a bit, and I'd like to see more. Having another character go with the players and interact with the events that are unfolding is great.

A game called Bastion had it right. Tell the story as it happens, and keep things in short, easy to understand segments. WoW doesn't have a narrator like Bastion did, but does benefit from having a character go with the players as they progress through a dungeon or raid. That should IMO be the standard from here on.
Floralae: That's a really long post, but yeah I totally agree.

What I'd really love to see more of is storytelling during the action. The Twilight stuff does it a bit, and I'd like to see more. Having another character go with the players and interact with the events that are unfolding is great.

A game called Bastion had it right. Tell the story as it happens, and keep things in short, easy to understand segments. WoW doesn't have a narrator like Bastion did, but does benefit from having a character go with the players as they progress through a dungeon or raid. That should IMO be the standard from here on.

The only problem with that in WoW, though, is that NPC is basically the real hero of the dungeon, not you and your group. It leaves a lot of players wondering "why am i in here? why am i following this godmode hero around?"

But I've been in other MMOs and even to this day, I know why I'm being sent to do whatever I'm being sent to do. The quests are more than one page of "I know I'm just standing here doing nothing and could easily purge my farm/land/home of these pesky rats, but I dropped my sword a couple feet over there and haven't a clue how to pick it up. Could you kill them for me? Oh, and bring my sword back to me, too?" Cmon, really?


In the end it's rather sad that John K. Keeshan (i.e., the Rambo character in the Lakeshire quests) gets better character development than Thrall.
Second, we've heard (as you've stated) that once through, it's not as fun the second time. We've obviously experienced this as well in the past via Culling of Stratholme. As you saw there, we did eventually make it possible to skip this portion of the event, but there are risks involved with that too. For newer players or those that aren't on the front edge of progression, this can cause them to miss out on being able to see this story unless they're with people who are willing to let it play out so they can experience it.

That said, I can't say that we'll do the same for the current dungeons (allowing the "skip"), but I can say that we'll continue to take constructive feedback on these aspects of the game as often as we can. We want to make sure we're giving the story that people want, while still making sure it's as fun as possible to be a part of it.


Why not simply implement a system that checks if people have the achievement for completing the dungeon and allowing them to skip if everyone has it? That way everyone will see it at least once but we won't be stuck with another CoS problem.
All you really have to do is quest or run dungeons, read every bit of text, and listen to every piece of dialogue to understand the story. Nobody has the patience for that, so don't complain.
Don't believe the hype. You can have story AND non-linear questing. Play Skyrim. Play GTA. The problem with the current WoW design is that its getting too close to SW:TOR super linear design which is awful for replay ability.

We want lots of quests - that you can do in various different order - that you wont have to finish all of with all your characters. This is how skyrim is - you have a main quest line - but that's about it - everything else is optional including how and when you tackle the main quest.

Granted that's too much for an MMO perhaps. But these very tight linear progressions really suck if you have alot of alts. I think SW:TOR will find that out the hard way..

It might be too late - but I agree with the OP. I suggest you rethink your quest design a bit. He didn't say he didn't want a story. He just didnt want a SPOOONFED STORY. That's a big difference.

Don't believe the hype. You can have story AND non-linear questing. Play Skyrim. Play GTA. The problem with the current WoW design is that its getting too close to SW:TOR super linear design which is awful for replay ability.

We want lots of quests - that you can do in various different order - that you wont have to finish all of with all your characters. This is how skyrim is - you have a main quest line - but that's about it - everything else is optional including how and when you tackle the main quest.

Granted that's too much for an MMO perhaps. But these very tight linear progressions really suck if you have alot of alts. I think SW:TOR will find that out the hard way..

It might be too late - but I agree with the OP. I suggest you rethink your quest design a bit. He didn't say he didn't want a story. He just didnt want a SPOOONFED STORY. That's a big difference.


Yep, apparently Blizzard forgot the illusion of mystery that made stories like the original Star Wars trilogy interesting. Backstory is nice when it's revealed gradually, if at all, rather than shoved in your face.

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