Are all MMORPG's like this?

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It would be interesting to see some kind of level sync feature appear in the game, similar to what Final Fantasy XI used to fix their level disparity problem.

In FFXI, people are basically required to group to level up. but the people in the group must all be within 1 to 2 levels of each other, otherwise the highest level person can ruin the experience gained by the lower level players. This would cause problems when forming a group: say you have a tank and all your dps, but you can't find a healer that's near your level. You could get a higher level healer but it would ruin everyone's experience, or you could get a lower level healer that wouldn't be able to keep up with heals.

To fix that, they added level sync, where you can invite anyone you want and then the party leader choose which person in the group that the party should be sync'd to. So say you've got a level 30, 31, 32, 45, and 75 in your group, the party leader could choose the level 32 player to sync to, making your party then consist of a level 30, 31, 32, 32, and 32. The higher level players still gain experience toward their real level, but their equipment is scaled back to appropriate ilvl's for that level and they only have access to the abilities they'd normally have at the sync'd level.

Doing something like this would allow friends, no matter what the level, to run through lower level dungeons with you. You could have your level 90 friends group with you when you're level 30, sync the group to your level 30, and then queue for a dungeon that would be within the level 30 range. Since they're implementing ilvl caps with dungeon challenges, Blizzard already has half the system in place for something like this.

Another benefit of this type of feature would be it would allow higher level people to queue for lower level dungeons for gear for transmog. Say I want to get some Wrath heroic gear for my character but can't find anyone willing to go with me. It would be freaking awesome to be able to queue for a Wrath heroic, or even normal dungeon, and have the game put cap me at the appropriate level (80 for heroic, and probably 80 for the regular modes, too), and then match my ilvl so I don't overpower the whole thing. This would also reduce queues to an extent. I really like doing Wrath heroics, but it can be tough to reach the ilvl requirement before you hit level 81, and even then you'll usually sit in queue for a good 30-45 minutes before being put in a group, and even at that point it's almost always Culling of Stratholme since people run that just for the mount.

I'd kill for a level sync feature like this.
Leveling is 1/2 the fun but you can only do so many times before its a bore
Dungeons & Raid until lockouts / loot lockouts
Daily grinds for rep / tokens gets boring quick and more so if you play 3 or more toons Experience a fuller game play (tank / heals / dps) Dual spec
PVP / Arena is not for all but then again its get to cap then stop
Take up a profession or two
Collect Mats / Pets / Mounts, start up fishing or whatever to kill some time
Finish All the quests - on a couple toons
Collect a XMorg set or 3
Explore the map / Raid a town
Achievements - so many of these
Roll a toon on the opposite Faction for a new experience
There is a Lot to do, you may get pleasure doing it alone or with firends

Its all about spending time on what you enjoy or putting your time elsewhere

The Raid Lockouts / Loot lockouts / Terrible drop rates / Token VP Cap limitations are put there to SLOW the game down so you don't end up with BIS slot gear 2 weeks from new content release.

New content has to last 6+ months until the next New content can be implemented.
Well... we are lucky to even have Transmog at this point >_>

I don't find any need to complain about it for what it is..


I still can't transmog my gas mask, & they said they were going to lighten up on the restrictions...

So /dons complaining hat
There is almost no reason what so ever to venture out into the world.


That was an error we made with the design of Cataclysm, but getting players invested in the world again is something we're interested in addressing with Mists.
When it comes to MMOs, you have basically two options to keep your players playing: You can either focus on end-game content or you can make leveling take a very long time.

Many free MMOs go the latter route, and I've played a few. In Dofus, the level cap was 200 and the grind was so horrible that it took something like 2 years for the first character to reach it. I also played a game called FlyFF, because some of my Dofus friends had switched over. I don't know what the level cap is/was in FlyFF; but after a month or two, I was still half my friends' levels and couldn't engage in any content with them. This makes it difficult to get friends to play a new game with you. This also causes the playerbase to be spread out over all the levels of the game, instead of clustered at max level. This, in turn, leads to little or no end-game content in these games, meaning the game effectively ends at level cap, since there's no reason to keep playing.

WoW's model is to minimize the time and effort required to reach max level and focus on providing content at that level. This gives continuous reason to keep playing the same character. It also affords you the opportunity to quickly level another character and see the content from a different perspective. I suspect this is the primary reason it's still going strong after 7+ years. I know I would have grown bored with it long ago if the focus was not on end-game content.
01/12/2012 07:41 AMPosted by Judge
Now I’m not saying WoW is bad, or that it’s dying. I’m not saying I hate the game and I am going to quit, but is there any MMORPG’s out there that have a different setup then this max level gear grind that anyone knows about, or is this pretty much the standard of the industry now?


Guild Wars 2. Look it up and see why it's going to be the next top MMO. Dynamic events > raiding. The PvP also seems very interesting.

I played EQ for years, then I played WoW since release and still am. However, GW2 looks like the first next gen MMO since WoW, and it just oozes awesome.
01/13/2012 04:30 PMPosted by Daxxarri
There is almost no reason what so ever to venture out into the world.


That was an error we made with the design of Cataclysm, but getting players invested in teh world again is something we're interested in addressing with Mists.


Thank you, finally some recognition. Looking forward to MoP
01/13/2012 02:49 PMPosted by Daxxarri
The leveling experience is important to us, which is part of the reason we revamped Azeroth for Cataclysm. It can be fun, rich and engaging without taking as much time as it used to. Still, at the end of the day, end game gets so much attention because that's where players spend the majority of their time. We do understand that not everyone enjoys the same types of game play, and we're always looking for ways to expand and improve the end-game experience to make it more engaging for different players.


I can understand that reason, but every expansion means you have compress the leveling experience more and more to get people to endgame.

For some people, raiding and heroics is a highly repeatable way to play. For others, pvp is a highly repeatable way to play. For me, questing and leveling is a repeatable way to have fun.

So I feel what I used to do a lot isn't quite as fun in a way. That's not to say the quests aren't great with the Cata revamp. They are much improved, and I love a lot of new mechanics. But I hate outleveling the mobs in a zone so fast. I hate doing an entire quest zone, and already the quests for the next zone are green. I don't like how easy the mobs are to kill. There's no sense of danger AT ALL. And I'm talking about all of this unguilded with no BoA's or other hand me downs.

Quite simply I wish the progression of questing could feel more in tune with the whole zone not half a zone. I understand that people want to get to end game fast though. But for those don't they do dungeons mostly to get there with BoA's and all the guild perks? I don't think questing needs to be more and more trivialized each expansion. But it is what it is.

So what I'd like to see with your next mmo maybe, or give thought to, would be for questing to be an entirely separate progression path that isn't influenced by being at a max level or required in order to play a different aspect of the game (pvp or raiding). So that questing doesn't have to be nerfed every expansion. So that every zone can be progressed as originally designed for the life of the game.
01/13/2012 04:30 PMPosted by Daxxarri
There is almost no reason what so ever to venture out into the world.


That was an error we made with the design of Cataclysm, but getting players invested in the world again is something we're interested in addressing with Mists.


Eh, it may have been an error to some extent, so far as it doesn't swing too far in the other direction when you guys 'correct' the error. I understand the arguments about why no traveling stinks, but at the same time traveling all over the place every time you want to get minor things done is equally annoying.
There is almost no reason what so ever to venture out into the world.


That's what I told my mom. :(
01/13/2012 04:30 PMPosted by Daxxarri
There is almost no reason what so ever to venture out into the world.


That was an error we made with the design of Cataclysm, but getting players invested in the world again is something we're interested in addressing with Mists.


Just out of curiosity, I hope we're talking about the ENTIRE game world and not just the MoP zones.
01/13/2012 04:30 PMPosted by Daxxarri
There is almost no reason what so ever to venture out into the world.


That was an error we made with the design of Cataclysm, but getting players invested in the world again is something we're interested in addressing with Mists.


Aside from the Pet Battle System that will encourage those interested in that diversion to explore the world in search of rare pets, what are the odds that Archaeology will get a revamp for Mists? Since we now have transmogrification and it's been a smash, I'd like to see some replica items available through Archaeology next expansion. Finding rare and epic items completely unsuitable for my class amidst an otherwise vast and boring sea of vendor trash has me rather discouraged from globetrotting Azeroth to soak in what felt like a promising profession. :(
I would like to suggest to Blizzard:

If you want to make max-level feel less like the only valid place to play the game, stop introducing world events and holidays that require max level to complete. Consider having the mobs scale with the level of the player involved if you insist on including combat in these events rather than just leaving out everybody who isn't 85.
planetside2.com ;)
They have released a bit of info that leads me to believe a max levels equipment might be slightly stronger than a bottom level, but in the original planetside1 (first person shooter mmo) you load up the game, spend the 1-2 certification points you start with to chose your first method of making the other guy dead (tank, plain, guns, med support etc etc).
Then all you do is click instant action to get teleported into a battle. if said lvl 1 was using a jackhammer shotgun their jackhammer would hit just as hard have the same accuracy etc as a lvl 20's.
The benefit of max level was when a plain flies in and shoots you you can respawn as an anti aircraft max suit and blow him out of the sky. Leveling gave diversity and flexibility in what you can bring to a battle, but there was NO equipment at all. This led the leveling process to be not really THAT terribly important or dreadful. leveling was fun, because the only thing you had to do to level was shoot people with shotguns! :)
i REALLY hope they keep that flow for PS2. being required to grind gear in order to have fun in pvp makes me /sigh. (not saying gear grind is hard in wow, it just isn't fun)
01/13/2012 04:30 PMPosted by Daxxarri
There is almost no reason what so ever to venture out into the world.


That was an error we made with the design of Cataclysm, but getting players invested in the world again is something we're interested in addressing with Mists.


To be honest, I don't think this is just a Cataclysm error.

You see, for anyone already at max level, WoW has little challenging content, or any content whose rewards are meaningful to progression, that isn't instanced.

This situation was roughly the same for a long time. Apart from a few exceptions (rep grind at the start of an expansion), only rarely have players been consistently drawn to open world content after they started doing heroic dungeons or raiding since you removed most of the raid associated material grind back in BC.

And, even if you (Blizzard) wanted to do such content now, I believe you would run into a fairly hairy scaling problem due to gear inflation; anything tuned for a fresh max level character would be too undertuned for a raider, and anything tuned for a raider (specially after a tier or two of raiding content) would be too overtuned for fresh max level character.

Just providing open world content, though, might not be enough. Unless you do some fairly radical changes, the instanced content will still be there, with all the rewards a player needs to "beat" the game. If the players are to be drawn to the open world content due to the rewards, that content might need to be as convenient, and grant rewards as fast as, the instanced content - and this already taking into account the possibility of PvP interfering in the PvE activities. Otherwise, anyone doing the content for the rewards will keep to the most convenient (instanced) content.
what ever happened to the idea I read about of hierlooming your characters to scale so one could meet your a friends lower lvl characters to run or rerun content without obviously taking away the experience as the big bad max lvl char? that was a feature i realy wanted and alot of other players reall want and you could make it in a way so say a lvl 82 could scale down to a lvl 30 40 50 whatever and lvl to 85 or 90 in mop by running skipped over or missed content? at a reduced xp rate that just adds to your lvling progress or perhaps gives the player an incentive like unique mounts achievements pets or more practical stuff while still having fun lvling with a friend in old school and BARELY touched content.

that would address the issue I think alot of players have with endgame being " the only important part of the game"

also what happened to the path of the ancients feature? Possible blue loot rolls for winning a BG? higher reputations lvls? and all of these other cool ideas ive read about over the years? I'd rather have more features and options than a pretty endgame dungeon that i grow to despise because the drops suck or the lack of randomness and shear repetition of it all can become mind numbing.

I realize these things are harder to implement than the same ole same ole but it is what makes a great game maintain its greatness not by taking away the experience but adding to it.
Sounds like Guild Wars 2 will be your kind of game. Seeya there.


Unless MoP really surprises me, I will be going there also. GW2 has a few high priority design goals (remove all kinds of griefing, allow all players to play together with whatever characters they want, get players out in the world, make doing group content not require formal grouping, remove all kinds of loot drama, etc) that, if met, will make that game quite more enjoyable for me.
01/13/2012 04:30 PMPosted by Daxxarri
There is almost no reason what so ever to venture out into the world.


That was an error we made with the design of Cataclysm, but getting players invested in the world again is something we're interested in addressing with Mists.


The problem with going out into the world is that there's no trade chat in the world. And given that a lot of people go out into the world as downtime in-between raids, and given that most pug raids are advertised in trade chat, going out into the world means missing out on potential raids.

I mean, yes, I get that some people also go out into the world to get away from people and don't want to hear trade chat, but a lot of those people already /leave trade when they're in the city.

There really needs to be some way for people to be able to hear about potential pugs forming while farming for, say, Baron's mount, or an Emerald Whelping. And I don't think there's really any way to create an alternative to trade chat at this point, though the original global looking for group channel wasn't bad.

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