Nerfs.

General Discussion
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01/18/2012 07:15 PMPosted by Arianenna
A 5% nerf = free gear? Whaaaa? Exaggerate much?

And the buff will get larger as time progresses.
And this means... what? It's still not free gear. The bosses will still hit hard for players with average raiding gear. It will still require tactics and planning.

You don't need to be so upset about this. If you're a hardcore raider, then see this as motivation for you and your guild to jump to true heroic mode with no nerfs. Stop acting like the bourgeois of raiding. You're not special.
I don't think that saying 'they should get better or quit' is a reasonable solution at any point at all.

I am kind of confused though. We have LFR for DS, we have Normal, and we have Heroic. At what point do you look at a situation and say "Alright, this needs a nerf" when there's already a lower difficulty available?

If there's a easy, normal, and hard difficulty, why tweak normal until it becomes as easy as the easy mode?


Well the nerfs are going to be progressive enough, as I said, I don't see a 5% change being a big enough change for Raid Finder players to suddenly start clearing Normal. We also don't know where we'll end up. We plan to increase the spell by 5% about every month, but we're not sure if we'll need to. If we see a lot of people able to keep progressing and downing bosses, maybe 5% is all we need. It's going to be watching completion numbers and seeing where that gets us. We're not assuming we'll need to go as far as we did with ICC. It's not going to be automatic, our hand is on the dial.
I'm just going to add my 2c, but really I don't care about the nerfs. The content is just mind numbing to play. If it helps me get through the content faster, it doesn't really bother me because I have no desire for epics. I wanted a challenge and I did not get it this expansion. Only reason I still raid is because I have 32, now 26 members are relying on me being there. Unless blizzard can convince me something, ANYTHING, is changing to make hard mode content more challenging, thought driven, entertaining, then I have no reason to buy the next expansion. If I cannot be true to blizzard at least I can be true to myself. Your content is not fun for me. Nerfing your content does not change that.

If this is offensive to you, remember it hurt me a lot more to say then it was for you to read.


Because they want to and they pay the same amount for the game? I don't know, man. How is it good for the game to have 1% of players parading around for months and months and a 99% sitting around with nothing to do because they're sick and tired of wiping?

Your solution is "Well then they should get better or quit." and that's just not reasonable for a video game comprised of millions of people looking to just have some fun. It's still a computer game.


Paying for the game doesn't entitle you to beating it. You don't get to see the final cut scene to Zelda just because you bought the game. You have to actually play it. You guys introduced easy mode already with raid finder. You have no excuse anymore. None.

There is literally nothing you can say to justify this move.


Zelda doesn't charge you a regular fee just to keep playing it, though. Does it?

The falacy in telling people to practice to get better is that it falls apart when people are forced to pay if they want to practice.


Because they want to and they pay the same amount for the game? I don't know, man. How is it good for the game to have 1% of players parading around for months and months and a 99% sitting around with nothing to do because they're sick and tired of wiping?

Your solution is "Well then they should get better or quit." and that's just not reasonable for a video game comprised of millions of people looking to just have some fun. It's still a computer game.


Weird how it was okay all of vanilla/BC.. then the devs change, more people quit then are currently playing, and you think its ok?

MMOs are about dedicated and time consumption.. maybe the new devs need to take a step back, and read about what MMOs are?

In fact, lets go back and start nerfing dungeons and dragons because only people with many hours can sit down and play that?

Bad excuses are bad... these devs are bad.. plain and simple...

Wow was fine in vanilla and BC.. in fact, those 2 games made you guys the worlds most famous MMO.. but naaah, lets change that formula to cater to the bads... kk i understand.


See there you go again. You call casuals bads, your ignorance and immaturity is strong.


Because they want to and they pay the same amount for the game? I don't know, man. How is it good for the game to have 1% of players parading around for months and months and a 99% sitting around with nothing to do because they're sick and tired of wiping?

Your solution is "Well then they should get better or quit." and that's just not reasonable for a video game comprised of millions of people looking to just have some fun. It's still a computer game.


Haha, well said!

I never get the big out cry when these nerfs happen, yet it always happens. People are very strange.
01/18/2012 07:08 PMPosted by Bashiok
Because they want to and they pay the same amount for the game?

So...
I pay 15 dollars a month.
I raid 9 hours a week.
I put in more time, I get more out of my 15 dollars.
They pay 15 dollars a month.
They raid 3 hours a week.
They're supposed to get the same achievement/time ratio as me?
01/18/2012 06:52 PMPosted by Bashiok
If a guild doesn't want the help, they're free to opt out of the buff. For those that do it's an approximate 5% change, which is pretty minor, and we expect it to be about a month before we raise it another 5%. This first change will absolutely help the guilds that are just barely sc@%#!*# by, or just need a tiny bump to cross the next hurdle, but it's just not logical to exclaim that someone will roll into Raid Finder, grab a couple items, then be looting Heroic Deathwing's corpse the next night.


I'm so glad you're giving us the option this time. I hated that Firelands was nerfed so hard and so fast without giving players the option of getting rid of it.
Some people worry way, way too much about what other people are doing with their characters. If you're raiding and enjoying the challenge as is, awesome. If some random person you don't know goes through weeks later and starts to clear it with a 5% nerf, what's it to you?

Why do people care so much about whether so-and-so did this on normal, or hard, when it has absolutely no bearing on what they themselves are doing/accomplishing/etc.

I really think people would enjoy themselves more if they worried less about what random strangers are doing in the game, and focused more on enjoying it themselves. If your enjoyment is somehow based on others progress and enjoyment of the same game, it may be time to re-prioritize things.
The gear acquired should get pinker and pinker (what ever you mog it too as well) to show that it was acquired with the debuff in place.
01/18/2012 07:20 PMPosted by Bomdanil
If a guild doesn't want the help, they're free to opt out of the buff. For those that do it's an approximate 5% change, which is pretty minor, and we expect it to be about a month before we raise it another 5%. This first change will absolutely help the guilds that are just barely sc@%#!*# by, or just need a tiny bump to cross the next hurdle, but it's just not logical to exclaim that someone will roll into Raid Finder, grab a couple items, then be looting Heroic Deathwing's corpse the next night.


I'm so glad you're giving us the option this time. I hated that Firelands was nerfed so hard and so fast without giving players the option of getting rid of it.

Because anyone with an iota of brain matter will turn off the nerf?
01/18/2012 07:04 PMPosted by Bashiok
All it takes is a moment to step back, assess the entire landscape of humanity, and realize that not everyone is like you, nor should they have to be.


So what you're saying is people shouldn't be expected to progress or get better, that goals are not meant to be worked toward?

Because handing everyone everything isn't going to make them play the game either.

What is LFR for again?



I'm not in some super pro guild myself and I'm not a super pro either, but this raid has been the easiest Tier of Cata by a fair margin. You cannot honestly tell me the majority are hitting walls.

And if they are isn't that what the LFR is for? To see the content? And it will also gear them up so they can overcome those walls.



I'm not even really against the nerf, we all knew it was going to happen, your reasoning is just absolutely ridiculous at times and I felt the need to comment on it.
01/18/2012 07:20 PMPosted by Tekton
Because they want to and they pay the same amount for the game?

So...
I pay 15 dollars a month.
I raid 9 hours a week.
I put in more time, I get more out of my 15 dollars.
They pay 15 dollars a month.
They raid 3 hours a week.
They're supposed to get the same achievement/time ratio as me?
The real question is, they should get the same rewards as you for completing an easier puzzle simply because they waited?
01/18/2012 07:16 PMPosted by Deneb
So basically 5% starting off just like ICC and every month after that another 5% up till we hit 35% which according to wowhead appears to be the cap. So thats like what 7-8 more months at least of Cataclysm with no new content.


The increase is not automatic or set in its frequency. We will be manually controlling when it increases, if at all. It will be completely based on how many people we see able to complete the raid, and our decision to increase it or not.
I have nothing more to say then... wow.
01/18/2012 07:04 PMPosted by Bashiok
All it takes is a moment to step back, assess the entire landscape of humanity, and realize that not everyone is like you, nor should they have to be.
The way I see it though, is most of the roadblocks my raid team came across were slightly either we needed to tweak our strat a bit to get it exactly perfect, or we simply didn't have the gear to meet the dps or healing requirements. The buff won't help with the former for the most part (No amount of buffs or debuffs on bosses will help you click Fading Light at the right time), or will simply allow people to ignore mechanics and faceroll bosses and not truly see the content any more than they see the content by going into LFR and doing it there.
As for the latter, well, isn't gearing up one of the points of raiding? Although, yes, I see the point behind the buff helping people who are slower at getting gear.


Lastly, can you please, please, please make it so that people can't grief by turning off the buff for the sake of lols, as tended to happen in ICC, and only the raid leader or someone can turn it off?
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Attack tables, CTC, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
Your solution is "Well then they should get better or quit." and that's just not reasonable for a video game comprised of millions of people looking to just have some fun. It's still a computer game.


I don't think that saying 'they should get better or quit' is a reasonable solution at any point at all.

I am kind of confused though. We have LFR for DS, we have Normal, and we have Heroic. At what point do you look at a situation and say "Alright, this needs a nerf" when there's already a lower difficulty available?

If there's a easy, normal, and hard difficulty, why tweak normal until it becomes as easy as the easy mode? With the introduction of LFR, I can not say I understand (or agree until I do understand) why this buff is necessary.

The learning curve between LFR and Normal is not too large, in my opinion. You guys do a good job tuning the difficulty from one setting to another.
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Probably because a great amount of regular raid teams make the conscious decision to raid 10 man regulars with their friends. And giving them a break after the top guilds killed the content sounds fine.
01/18/2012 07:04 PMPosted by Bashiok


Call the news! People are having the same thing that happened to every raiding guild before them. You burn through the wall by getting better.


All it takes is a moment to step back, assess the entire landscape of humanity, and realize that not everyone is like you, nor should they have to be.

Bashiok just won teh internetz.

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