Please bring back whoever designed Ulduar

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I only got to do ulduar once and it was fun I suppose, not my favorite, irock the medieval theme Kara the best x)
The boss fights were great the trash was not for someone in a guild with members that were older in age and couldnt raid 4-5 hrs a night
01/26/2012 09:23 PMPosted by Bitmad
This sort of needs to stay on the first page because it is a necessity to change the format of raids


I think the format of content in general. Everything in the game is so easy and quick that you can finish all of the current end game content in less than a week with the overly faceroll HoT heroics and LFR. Blizzard should stop creating content that is meant to be quick and instead create content that has depth and longevity.
Ulduar was the brief shining light in an overall horrid expansion from a PvE perspective.

Whilst I still think overall for enjoyment BC was the best time of raiding WoW ever had, I loved Ulduar.

The boss fights were all very unique with fun mechanics and the trash, whilst numerous (certainly more un-skippable trash) in Ulduar than Firelands or any other Cata raid, it actually felt like the trash had a purpose and it set the stage for the boss fight to come beautifully.

The trash for the 4 keepers in particular was really well done and ADDED to the experience. It didn't feel like a pointless waste of time like the trash in Dragon Soul and pretty much every other Cataclysm raid.
I have to say, I completely agree with the sentiment in this thread. Ulduar was possibly the most fun I've had in WoW, though there is the possibility that circumstances dictated that to some degree.

One thing about Ulduar that IIRC was controversial was Leviathan. However, I think if you really truly look back at it, it was a pretty epic start to the raid. It seems to me that the general consensus is that vehicle encounters were a failed experiment. Personally, I disagree. I think they are a great break from the typical encounter. I can understand that there are plenty of people who don't want to do them. Fine. But IMO there are two good ways to solve the issue: 1. Use Putricide-like mechanics where one or even a few individuals use vehicles, or 2. Do some optional bosses with vehicles.

I was a bit disappointed that Cataclysm completely ditched vehicles in the end game :/
Ulduar was unfun and overtuned, I hope they never make anything like it again, ever.
It had massive nerfs once the next set of gear was released.
01/26/2012 10:34 PMPosted by Khayleth
Ulduar was unfun and overtuned, I hope they never make anything like it again, ever.

Ulduar was overtuned? Are you kidding me?

Ulduar was overtuned? Are you kidding me?


Oh yes, yes it was, incredibly so. The wotlk raid difficulty didn't stay consistent, naxx was easy and then ulduar suddenly ramped up the difficulty and then toc brought it back down so, while easier than ulduar, toc was harder than naxx.

Raid difficulty for those three tiers felt like: Naxx < ToC < Ulduar. Ulduar should have been as difficult as ToC was, while ToC needed it's difficulty ramped up (minus the pvp style fight which is probably the worst fight they ever designed, ever).

To clarify better: The difficulty curve from t7 to t8 was much higher than it should have been.
01/26/2012 10:45 PMPosted by Khayleth
To clarify better: The difficulty curve from t7 to t8 was much higher than it should have been.

Uh...if you had no clue how to raid maybe...

It was tuned just fine. You went in the first week and maybe killed the first four bosses. Got some more gear, and worked on Council, Kologarn and Cat Lady. Did it again the next week and kept PROGRESSING. You know that term? Progress? That thing that pretty much disappeared after Ulduar since everything could be cleared in the first reset once all gating was removed.
Ulduar is still one of my fave instances in the game <3 Even the environment and details put into that place still leave me in awe when I re-visit.
It was tuned just fine.


No, it really wasn't. But it's not relevant content now so it doesn't matter anyway, I just hope they don't make anything like it again.
Oh yes, yes it was, incredibly so. The wotlk raid difficulty didn't stay consistent, naxx was easy and then ulduar suddenly ramped up the difficulty and then toc brought it back down so, while easier than ulduar, toc was harder than naxx.

Raid difficulty for those three tiers felt like: Naxx < ToC < Ulduar. Ulduar should have been as difficult as ToC was, while ToC needed it's difficulty ramped up (minus the pvp style fight which is probably the worst fight they ever designed, ever).

To clarify better: The difficulty curve from t7 to t8 was much higher than it should have been.


Ignis launched with bugs and Razorscale was definetly quite strong before the first nerf. The trash however was more deadly than most of the first 4 bosses at launch (except Ignis which was virtually unkillable). Difficulty ramped up through the instance which it should do.

Nax incidentally was also cleared way too quickly, coming from the raids from BC. I am not sure if you played BC but it is likely that the poitn of view is actually skewed by Naxx and ToC being badly tuned, not the other way around.

I would agree that at live a few of the bosses were tuned very tightly but it didn't take long to reduce those first few bosses and fix the bugs, after that there was nothing wrong with the tuning between the two tiers.

ToC normal was undertuned considerably - there is no way Ulduar should have come down to ToC level. Normal bosses in ToC were killed by just about every guild that tried them on their first week of release - it only took a month because they activated one at a time. If they all went live in one go 50% of the guilds would have cleared everything up to Anub in close to a day.

Having said that comparing Ulduar and ToC in one sentance should really only be appropriate when stating the best and worst raids ever in WoW.
What a coincidence! We happened to talk about raid design and results with Ghostcrawler and Mumper yesterday, and everyone looked back fondly on Ulduar, among others.

Yes, the same designers and artists who worked on Ulduar are still working on raids.

Here's the thing -- Ulduar is an example of a raid where lots of players got to enjoy the first few bosses, and very few players ever saw the last few.


How about other things from Ulduar?
How about interesting boss fight mechanics?
How about new boss models?
How about new boss environments?
How about a majority of the fights actually be different as well as Hard on Heroic mode... rather than normal mode +50%?

How about just making Raids epic feeling again? Honestly Firelands and Dragon Soul were both complete jokes of raid tiers... nothing about them felt epic or exciting in any way shape or form...

How about you guys actually try again with Raiding? Is there actually a plan to try again? (and please don't say you have been... because the 28 bosses this tier (most of which were rehashed bosses/models/villians we've already killed), say you did not.
01/26/2012 12:11 PMPosted by Kaivax
Nonetheless, because there are so many requests for those style mechanics, we are considering doing a few bosses with optional modes (in the same way Mimiron, Freya or Sartharion had them) in Mists of Pandaria.


this is gewd.
01/26/2012 12:11 PMPosted by Kaivax
Here's the thing -- Ulduar is an example of a raid where lots of players got to enjoy the first few bosses, and very few players ever saw the last few.


Your pardon, noble Kaivax, but I should state that the likely reason why fewer people saw the last few bosses in Ulduar is due mostly in part that it didn't have enough play time before ToC was introduce. Ask anyone, and you shall hear that they didn't get the opportunity to spend half as much time in Ulduar as they would have liked because it was over shadowed by ToC too soon. If Ulduar was released 4 months prior to ToC and say the best guilds are farming Yogg within 1 month at best, that means they had roughly 9 weeks worth of farming him before his gear was obsolete.

Most guilds which may have moved at a more modest pace would have downed him maybe by the 2nd month. which means only 6 weeks. or perhaps the 3rd month which means only 3 weeks. For a place as massive as Ulduar was, it should have had more play time. Everybody liked it, I doubt many would have complained getting an extra month of Ulduar especially considering the unmitigated disaster that was ToC - template of Cataclysm. (Sorry, had to)

Best regards,
-Sanctinius
Bring back whoever designed Karazhan! I love that place.
One thing I thought was interesting in Ulduar (and some other bosses) aside from the "Big Red Button" was the ability to have essentially multi-tiered difficulties within the encounter itself. Using Yogg-saron as the example, players had the ability to incrementally increase the difficulty of the encounter to suit their raid while also offering the possibility for future accomplishments and growth. Basically a guild could kill Yogg-saron with the help of all 4 helpers, but if they found that too easy they weren't suddenly forced to do the encounter with 1 or 0 like it would be today. Instead they got to progressively drop 1 helper, which made the player a better player (probably) and gave them more room to grow by dropping more and more helpers.

I would be down for having a hardmode style raid like Ulduar again, the role play aspect is far more entertaining than toggling a heroic mode "switch" on the interface.

Also speaking on the size of the raid, it had the same number of bosses as Heroic T11 had. I think one major reason people may not have enjoyed the large number of bosses that tier (aside from the bugs) was because you scattered them all over the world. Had they all been in the same location I don't think people would have found it that huge, but I don't consider flying between places to play the game as playing the game.
What a coincidence! We happened to talk about raid design and results with Ghostcrawler and Mumper yesterday, and everyone looked back fondly on Ulduar, among others.

Yes, the same designers and artists who worked on Ulduar are still working on raids.

...
Nonetheless, because there are so many requests for those style mechanics, we are considering doing a few bosses with optional modes (in the same way Mimiron, Freya or Sartharion had them) in Mists of Pandaria.

/DROOL

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