Cataclysm PVP Feedback

Battlegrounds
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01/28/2012 11:08 PMPosted by Feargx
We all know the issues with AV, and that Alliance has the advantage
No. Just no.
We all know the issues with AV, and that Alliance has the advantage
No. Just no.


Everyone always has a different perspective on these map imbalances, its important to remember that our own personal opinions on them don't necessarily reflect everyone elses.

What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?



Damage is to high this season and people die way to fast.
PVE gear shouldn't be bis for pvp (vial, legendaries ect.)
Cata PvP Likes:

- To be honest there really wasn't much that was likeable.

Cata PvP Dislikes:

- Blizzard flat out ignoring the PvP crowd.
- The over advantage that melee class have on casting classes minus the Frost Mage and Priest.
- Way to much stuns and CC's and anything of that sort... and the length of them it is not uncommon to be killed in 3 seconds.
-I hate to point out a class, but something need to be done with Rogues... Insane bursts, ability to go in and out of stealth during combat, most classes don't stand a chance if jumped by a Rogue.
- Horrible balancing of classes, Blizz could have done a much better job....
- In DPS/TANK vs HEALER.... Unless you CC or interrupt like hell, you can't kill a healer.
- To much DMG absorbing shields on some class and other classes have to little.
- Mounts in PvP
- Bots... lots and lots ( I do blame this 50% on the Botter and 50% on Blizz. It could be that they bot due to PvP being as awful as it is )
- I could go on and on

Suggestions to Blizzard:

- Limit the amount of a specific class in battle grounds and each side has the same amount of healers. No more having a couple Rogue, Dk's, Pallies, Mages, and then a Priest or two...
- Take mounts out of PvP
- Balance classes
- The Damage to health to Rez ratio need to be looked at ( Just re-do the whole DMG system )
- To sum it all up take a look at the PvP system... It really just needs an overhaul.

My Final Thought:

Blizzard let PvP be PvP...


The sheer amount of interrupts/silences/cc is my biggest issue (particularly with rogues - it's almost to the point that no matter how bad the rogue is at getting faked you still can't cast). This led to casters either being terrible (resto druids, priests until the hotfixes) or instants being buffed to the point they didn't really cast anyway (most dps casters but mages particularly, most healers etc), which leads to very poor gameplay - eg icelance spam or holy paladin instant healing, is that fun for *anyone*?

Every healer having dispel was probably a bad idea without also looking at what shamans in particular had because they couldn't dispel - tremor and 5s shear to name a couple (although that's gone now thankfully). Same would apply to resto druids if they could actually heal, but for some reason they've been left terrible all expansion.

Damage scaling also clearly got out of hand (again, rogues being the most obvious case but most classes are way too high).
I can sum up my feelings of cataclysm pvp in 3 words:
Worst expansion yet.
01/29/2012 01:16 AMPosted by Zolaxe
- Mounts in PvP


Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying you don't like ground mounts being usable in BG/Arena? Or Flying mounts limiting world PVP? Or that there are not enough unique mounts tied to PVP?
01/29/2012 01:16 AMPosted by Zolaxe
The over advantage that melee class have on casting classes minus the Frost Mage and Priest.


Melee have CLEAR advantages over priests. Not sure why you said that. Disc, shadow and holy priests rely on peels a great deal (with few exceptions). One or two fears plus a speed bubble is easily trinketed and a lot of times resisted by spells and the like.
Dislikes about pvp :
-Rogues (overpowerd)
-Frost mage MASTERY ( over powerd )
- Pve trinkets/weapons ( too bursty)
- Some classes/specs being left in the dust for RBGs because they bring minimal things to help the group ( arms warriors/enhancement shamans/ret pallies )
- Ring of valor , need I say more?
- The number of keyboard warriors in battlegrounds.
- The human racial is overpowerd.

Likes about Pvp:
- Short battleground ques
- Pretty fun for the most part.
- 50x better then Swtor
01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)


Not earning any money for rbg or random bg wins, while pve players earn gold for completion of dungeons.

Rated bg ladder website not properly updated for this season, EOTS stats bugged.

01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?


Rated battlegrounds, but there needs to be a LFG type of system added to help the players who want to play rateds but can't find a team.

01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?


None, class imbalances generally keep me out of arenas.

01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?


I thought Twin Peaks was well-designed, but the graveyard mechanics are confusing to many players.

01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?


Graveyard mechanics.

Warsong buggy caps.

Balance issues.

Stuns not broken on damage taken.

Being forced to do IoC and SOTA for randoms

Vehicle pvp, pve bosses in IoC and AV

Baradin Hold pve being needed to get pvp gear

01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?


Obviously, there are major class imbalances. Certain classes like rogues and mages have too many mechanics to control other players.

01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?


Silences and stuns. Cast times vs. melee classes that have instant cast everything plus silences.

01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to?


Am curious about the monk gameplay mechanic of no auto attack.

Am hopeful for more true customization of talents.

Would like to know more about resilience baked into to levels to improve survivability of newly leveled players.
Blizzard response time to problems plaguing pvp, especially in terms of balance and scaling. Minor things being hotfixed while huge problems wait for patches.

Damage vs resil scaling.
01/28/2012 01:20 PMPosted by Stormspellz
-the complete lack of timely fixes for nearly any pvp problem, mmr abuse, bg ques for horde in s9, class balance on obvious problems like frost mage mastery, vengence, ect


This one has been huge for me for a long time now.

It seems that any major imbalanced ability takes months, if ever, to get fixed. It's like no one at Blizz HQ is even aware of any problem. I do know that they don't consider the PTR a large enough scope to make changes but EVERY major problem has always been addressed in the PTR forums and ignored. Then it makes it to live realms untouched.



01/29/2012 12:34 PMPosted by Goldenhoof
-the complete lack of timely fixes for nearly any pvp problem, mmr abuse, bg ques for horde in s9, class balance on obvious problems like frost mage mastery, vengence, ect


This one has been huge for me for a long time now.

It seems that any major imbalanced ability takes months, if ever, to get fixed. It's like no one at Blizz HQ is even aware of any problem. I do know that they don't consider the PTR a large enough scope to make changes but EVERY major problem has always been addressed in the PTR forums and ignored. Then it makes it to live realms untouched.


This.

Early in BC Blizzard was pretty active on the forums regarding PvP issues, but since then they hae been nearly silent. They don't repond, react, engage, or participate in any PvP related discussions. They ignore feedback on the PTR, on Arena Junkies or any of their forums...they same way they will do with this or any other constructive threads. They're very content to let PvP bugs go on for months or years, yet they will fix a PvE encounter with head turning speed,so it leaves the PvP community with a complete lack of faith that they will make an actual effort to improve PvP in this game.

While some may see my views as negative, they're based solely on the reality of the matter. Years of doing or not doing something isn't a trend, it's a behavior and behaviors are tough to change and expecting them to change without any evidence is folly.
`
feedback:

dont give one race/faction a racial ability that is so desireable, it places that particular race at the top of the RBG and Arena leaderboards.

not only that, but it is so advantageous it attracts pvp-focused players to one particular race, thereby tilting the scales of casual pvp and random bg's in the favor of that faction.

and when this does occur, there is no reason given behind the change, nor is the negative impact it is having on so many players' in game experience even acknowledged.

the customer is not a lab rat to be experimented on. we are not a stockpile of endless cash to be milked, used, and abused.
For the sake of keeping this post somewhat shorter, omitted some of your questions, but they were pretty much saying the same thing as you did anyway. I also added in some of my ideas/suggestions to make it more interesting. :)

01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?


  • I'd really like the ability to omit certain battlegrounds; in particular, I don't like AV/IoC nearly as much as the other battlegrounds. A system where you are able to "like" certain battlegrounds and "dislike" others would be great -- where disliked battlegrounds would come up less often, and liked battlegrounds would come up a little more often.

  • 01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
    What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?


  • Composition often decides the match, which is quite frustrating. However, that's a problem inherent with WoW, and not exactly easy to fix. Something that would help, though, would be more CC's DR with each other and/or adding cooldowns to certain CC. Warlock Fear and Mage Polymorph, for example, are "spammable" and can keep players locked out for a very long time over the course of a match. Meanwhile, those same spells exist in Psychic Scream/Hex, which both have cooldowns. Making more CC's DR with each other would fix some of the composition synergy (Warlock/Sham, PMR, etc.)

  • Huge class imbalances have been prevalent for a long time without being fixed -- for example, Frost Mage damage. After so long you would expect some type of balance. I keep telling myself it's just because of PvE that class imbalances are allowed to exist for so long, but maybe that's a sign that PvE and PvP truly need to be separated now... it would take some time, but would be better for the community overall.

    If that was ever implemented, each spell could remain the same as it is currently, but with damage/duration tweaks in a PvP vs. PvE environment (i.e. Frosbolt would hit for 20k damage against an NPC, and 10k against a player. Psychic Scream would have a minute duration and root the mob in place against an NPC, and it would make the target run in fear for 8 seconds against a player PvP). I would much prefer a system like this to the current one!

  • 01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
    What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?


  • PvE gear has made PvP much less enjoyable; I too would love to just ban PvE gear in rated PvP -- that is, RBG's and arenas. People can still go and have their fun in normal battlegrounds with whatever, but those overpowered trinkets (Vial) and weapons (daggers, staff) have no place in a rated PvP environment. Even up the playing field.

  • Interrupts need an overhaul. A reward/punishment system would be ideal to reward skillful play and punish unskillful play and rash decisions, and I think it would make PvP in general a better environment. For example, someone who successfully baits an interrupt would be immune to interrupts for the next 2-3 seconds to allow them to cast, and/or the person who wasted their interrupt would have the cooldown increased slightly. Conversely, if someone successfully interrupts, they would get a slight damage increase and/or a cut on the cooldown of their interrupt.

  • Dispels should have a priority system of sorts, with the implementation of a cooldown on dispels. For example, instead of just temporarily wiping the person of all of their buffs, you can dispel them every ~5-10 seconds, with a priority. Each dispel would wipe an entire "priority". For example:

    Offensive Dispels: short-duration cooldowns/buffs (priority 1), long-duration cooldowns/buffs (priority 2), buff fodder, i.e. Fort, Brilliance, etc. (priority 3)

    Defensive Dispels: Crowd Control (priority 1), Unstable Affliction/VT horror (priority 2), DoTs/debuff fodder, i.e. SW:P, Cone of Cold slow, etc. (priority 3)

    This way, UA/VT would protect what they're meant to protect all the time -- that is, DoTs -- without making it too powerful to protect CC's. Short-duration cooldowns could be dispelled without getting the many trash buffs that exist first, but it's on a cooldown so you can't neuter a spec just by being able to dispel.

  • Great thread, thanks for making this!
    I like

    • Conquest points for random battlegrounds victories
    • No rating on conquest gear, so I can eventually have a full set
    • Weapons via honor and conquest points
    • Teams now start with an even number of players on each side
    • Queues are currently very short
    • Nice big fights (5v5 or more) around a node or a flag
    • When each side is pretty even in score until the end
    • Battlegrounds like WSG, Gilneas, AB, TP, EotS that encourage PvP
    • Charge, Death Grip.. fun abilities that teleport people !


    I dislike

    • Wintergrasp isn't playable anymore. The rewards are too small and the demos didn't scale
    • Having to level then grind gear from start when I think about rerolling another class. I wish we could get PvP premades like GW2
    • Facing a premade when we're a pug
    • SotA, IoC and AV who do not encourage PvP and don't feel like PvP
    • IoC and AV where the map is too big
    • Burst damage is way too high, people die in an opening
    • I can't get gold while PvPing
    • I don't have any incentive to go out of Orgrimmar to PvP
    • Too much CC in the game. Stun, fear, disorient, snare, root, polymorph... enough !
    • Snares over 50% speed reduction. Crawling instead of running isn't fun !
    • When one team gives up too fast because they know they won't win and want to end it fast
    • On a CTF game, when one team has no healer and the other has 3
    • Rogues... they're frustrating to play against and can just vanish when they lose
    • The scoreboard at the end should be removed. It distracts people from objectives
    • Abilities that push people over the cliff in LM and EotS. Mind Control, Thunderstorm...

    Thanks for putting so much time and effort into your feedback Ephylia. That is the kind of well thought out constructive feedback I really love to see. The better we articulate what our issues with the game are and what we would like to see happen the more helpful our feedback is likely to be. Keep it coming guys!

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