Win on multiple items in LFR

General Discussion
That's still not clear. You lose the roll bonus for the 2nd item, but is it still considered a Need roll? If someone else rolls Need, who wins? Should a player get a second trinket (that he wouldn't even be able to equip) over someone rolling need for off-spec?


The policy seems very clear regarding tokens and weapons.

Token #1
Player A rolls need: 96 + 100 bonus
Player B rolls need: 95
Player C rolls greed: 100
Player A wins

Token #2
Player A rolls need: 76 (lost bonus because of first win)
Player B rolls need: 75
Player C rolls greed: 76
Player A wins

Your last question raises a great point. As you pointed out, trinkets are unique-equipped. It would be best if unique-equipped slots (such as trinkets or rings) were completely eliminated from all future rolls when won. That would further eliminate competition for offspec rolls.
I get the feeling that the simultaneous roll situation is what's causing the new 'bug'. I mean, basic understanding of how randomization works will tell you why that's when you saw the majority of double-wins in the first place.

Either way, a step in the right direction. Now there just needs to be a system where people don't get roll bonuses on tier pieces they already own, a fix for the druid/shaman issue, and we'll be in good shape.
02/08/2012 02:41 PMPosted by Skjellyfetti
That's not what Zarhym said.


It is, actually, and the example given above is exactly what happens when loot is rolled for in LFR. A need roll is still a need roll regardless of whether or not a role bonus is involved, and will take precedence over any greed rolls.

If a player wins one item via the +100 role bonus, they can still win a second copy of the same item if their non-bonus need roll beats the non-bonus need roll of any others in competition; if there is nobody else rolling need at all, the player will win the second copy by default.
What i think Blizzard need to do is make the items in LFR unique. This will stop people needing on items in their bags and items they have equipped. It constantly happens and when you try to address this with the player the response is "Its LFR, who cares about loot"
I won both the caster staff and healing mace off Deathwing yesterday, and there were a bunch of people rolling on both. I had the role bonus on both items. Gave the staff away to a mage, but I've still seen several instances of people winning two items off the same boss this week.
Our patch note is wrong and we apologize for the confusion. We'll get it updated.


This is correct.

The way it currently works is you'll lose the Need+ roll bonus if you win an item that drops twice from the same boss, but you won't be made completely ineligible to win it twice. If no one else has the Need+ bonus or rolls Need on the item, you'd still win it.


That's still not clear. You lose the roll bonus for the 2nd item, but is it still considered a Need roll? If someone else rolls Need, who wins? Should a player get a second trinket (that he wouldn't even be able to equip) over someone rolling need for off-spec?

And with all due respect, Zarhym, this patch note has been written this way and discussed in this context for months now. Please do a better job next time in the accuracy of the notes. It's not like this was vague or misleading. It was completely incorrect. Either the developers changed the function of the mechanic at the last minute without advising you, or you did not understand how the mechanic functioned.

To be honest, some people might be a bit disappointed at what appears to be a last minute change. People here have been discussing this change based on the information you presented, but that is not at all how the change was actually implemented. If you guys really want good feedback, you've got to be accurate in the information you pass along.

This is offered as constructive criticism, so I'll thank folks for not chiming in with comments about how hard the blues work and how mistakes can happen and so forth. I understand that. I'm offering this as feedback for Zarhym, not for commentary. Thanks.


What exactly is confusing about it?

If two identical items drop

Item one

Player one rolls 45(+100)
Player two rolls 57(+100)

Player two wins the first item

Item two

Player one rolls 1(+100)
Player 2 rolls 100(+0)

Player one wins item two.

Please tell us what is hard to understand about this.
02/08/2012 02:23 PMPosted by Valpin
That's still not clear. You lose the roll bonus for the 2nd item, but is it still considered a Need roll? If someone else rolls Need, who wins? Should a player get a second trinket (that he wouldn't even be able to equip) over someone rolling need for off-spec?


The policy seems very clear regarding tokens and weapons.

Token #1
Player A rolls need: 96 + 100 bonus
Player B rolls need: 95
Player C rolls greed: 100
Player A wins

Token #2
Player A rolls need: 76 (lost bonus because of first win)
Player B rolls need: 75
Player C rolls greed: 76
Player A wins

Your last question raises a great point. As you pointed out, trinkets are unique-equipped. It would be best if unique-equipped slots (such as trinkets or rings) were completely eliminated from all future rolls when won. That would further eliminate competition for offspec rolls.


For the second case don't forget that in case of a tie the system does a secondary roll that is not displayed.

Edit: die -> tie
02/08/2012 12:29 PMPosted by Zarhym


There were actually 5 people rolling on the trinket.. all of which got a bonus roll. I didn't personally roll for it because I didn't need it. But the person that won both had a bonus roll on both items.

That shouldn't happen. I'd suggest posting about it in the Bug Report forum. If you have any evidence to provide, that'd help too. :)


What if you actually do need duplicates of the same item? Lets say two of the one hander axes drop from DW. I need both of those, do I not win one because of this new system? Even though it is a legitimate upgrade?
02/08/2012 03:08 PMPosted by Plagueboy
What i think Blizzard need to do is make the items in LFR unique. This will stop people needing on items in their bags and items they have equipped. It constantly happens and when you try to address this with the player the response is "Its LFR, who cares about loot"


This times a million. I'm getting tired of seeing "trading x piece for x piece" from people who already have that item, but only needed on it as a bartering tool for something else they want but might not win. . :(

A ret paladin won an int ring in the LFR I was in last night and wanted to trade it for something he could use. No one had anything to offer and thus he left with two mages begging for the ring. My guess is he vendored it.


That shouldn't happen. I'd suggest posting about it in the Bug Report forum. If you have any evidence to provide, that'd help too. :)


What if you actually do need duplicates of the same item? Lets say two of the one hander axes drop from DW. I need both of those, do I not win one because of this new system? Even though it is a legitimate upgrade?


That's greed, pure and simple. You wait until you get lucky the next time. This way, other people who need it can get it. If your situation is that no one else needs it, then you'll still get both anyway.
Thats not greed any more than anyone else wanting an upgrade. Enhancement shamans need 2 weapons, so it would make sense for them to be able to roll on both and get an upgrade, but that might be difficult to implement.
02/08/2012 09:17 AMPosted by Oglop
They do not get a role bonus on the second if they won the first one.


Ding, ding.

All the change did is take the +100 role bonus off the second item. So, in theory, you still could win both items if the first is a need win and the second is a greed win.

What if you actually do need duplicates of the same item? Lets say two of the one hander axes drop from DW. I need both of those, do I not win one because of this new system? Even though it is a legitimate upgrade?


You'll have to attempt to get the second one another week. Not exactly the end of the world, and certainly as my primary alt is a cat/bear druid, I completely understand needing 2 of the same item, but you're not being barred from ever winning the second item, just from winning both on the same boss in the same lockout, which seems like a fairly reasonable compromise.

We have updated the 4.3.2 patch notes to better describe the way this system change works.

02/08/2012 03:16 PMPosted by Arlynelei
I won both the caster staff and healing mace off Deathwing yesterday, and there were a bunch of people rolling on both. I had the role bonus on both items. Gave the staff away to a mage, but I've still seen several instances of people winning two items off the same boss this week.


Reminder -- the change that went in with this patch only affects rolls on identical items from the same boss.
The wording in the patch notes probably still needs to be change to make this more explicit.

Players no longer benefit from a role-based need bonus on the second of multiple copies of the same item on a single Raid Finder boss kill. For example, a player who chooses Need on two set piece tokens or two weapons (and wins the first) will only automatically roll 1-100 for the second from that particular boss.


The first sentence is clear, but then the example given muddies the water IMO. Perhaps changing "or two weapons" to "or two identical weapons" would take care of it.
Last week after patch, one of the Agi weapons dropped twice, and someone got the role bonus on both and won both. As for evidence, would a GM be able to pull up my logs to see it? I didn't screenshot it.

Must have been your imagination or something because I didn't find anything condescending in that post. But then again, you can make anything out of text on a screen since you can't hear or see how someone really meant it.


It was condescending - just like your response.

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