WoW Training Grounds. Youll never be the same

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02/29/2012 03:45 PMPosted by Zhenogre
Yeah yeah, excellent resume. We're proud of you.


Hence my point about not being required to "sit a test".


I'm not really sure why you're so hostile about this. You do realize that these tests would probably be things like "Don't stand in fire" or "Execute your rotation on this boss while this NPC tank holds aggro", right?

I'm assuming it would take an experienced player all of 15-20 minutes to complete, but the benefits of teaching new players the basics of playing at 85 would far outweigh the minor amount of time wasted for people who don't need the tests.

OP, this is an excellent idea and I hope Blizzard implements this.
2 empty glyph slots
9 unenchanted items


you're coming off as a bit of a hypocrite.


Oh?


Oh sorry i forgot that mattered while leveling up :/ Furthermore I haven't actually "played" this toon for quite a while if you take a look at my lv 50 achiev. Good try though.
02/29/2012 03:48 PMPosted by Zhenogre
Not sure what you're talking about with soft hit cap, when you reach 17% you should stop as far as I know. You're not reforged properly either, you also have several gems that should be brilliant inferno rubies


2 empty glyph slots
9 unenchanted items


you're coming off as a bit of a hypocrite.


Oh? Show me your level 85, 386 Arcane mage, and we can compare.


He's level 51, champ. Relax a bit. We're all in awe of your accomplishments. Go ahead and pat yourself on the back, slugger!

OP, I think this is a brilliant idea. While I do frequent EJ and various other guides, there's something about putting boots to the ground. Theorycrafting is great, but theories are theories. They're only so good if you can actually apply them. I think this would be an excellent opportunity to supplement the outside material and the theorycrafting.
Valdrix, I know. The issue is that if he had a mage at my level, he can talk. Suggesting I gem pure intellect, is in itself a notation that he does not know my class. I am happy to take any and all criticism or analysis on gear and enchants, but only if that person knows the class they are discussing.



We've discussed a similar idea in the past, and it might be possible to use the technology we're using to build out the Scenarios coming in Mists to make something like this happen at some point in the future. Maybe!

It would be cool.


It's more than cool.

It's necessary.

Required, I would even say. No one is going to ever learn to play their class properly in the game using the game as their resource unless something to this effect is implemented.



no hes right, it would be cool. but it really isn't required by any means

lets be realistic for a minute

how many normal dungeons did we all run pre/post 85?? countless! i mastered my rotation long, long ago through trial in error and getting tips from other players way before raid finder and all the easier aspects where implemented.

memory plays a huge factor here for all players, i have trouble remembering each and every fight but other then that i know my class' mechanics so well i could probably do it in my sleep. i'm sure its the same for any long-term wow player.

if your a new player and you are having trouble maintaining, run normal dungeons till you get the jist of how certain encounters work and what things work or not.

this isn't rocket science here people, its the GEAR and how all that works that new 85s need help with the most
02/29/2012 03:49 PMPosted by Aredyl


Yeah yeah, excellent resume. We're proud of you.

This clearly isn't for you. There are plenty of players out there who either don't utilize the resources to achieve any or this or simply don't know they're available. Those players could use the help.


I really don't think they should make it "mandatory" for anybody to complete a trial, although a tool like this in an optional format would be great. Making this a "mandatory" trial would have the feeling of attunements all over again, which is something blizzard has been moving away from. The only real attunements left in the game are heroic raids - complete the normal version to access the hard.

Imagine if a raider continues to die to fire on the ground. Either the raid lead or an in-game prompt can ask them to review a similar situation without having to take 9 others along with them or wait for LFR. This gives a guild or an invidual player the opportunity to finely tune their skills, test setups/specs/gear, or just play around for fun (or rewards).


That's a fair opinion. I'm not sold on the mandatory idea either, but there's got to be some sort of push for it. Otherwise people are just not going to do it, and we're back to square one. I do like the prompt idea.

I'm thinking some kind of achieve system might useful with it too. If I'm organizing a raid, I'd love to be able to go "okay, this Shaman is a bit undergeared but he's completed all the training sessions regarding his class, so I'll take him".



02/29/2012 03:57 PMPosted by Zhenogre
Valdrix, I know. The issue is that if he had a mage at my level, he can talk. Suggesting I gem pure intellect, is in itself a notation that he does not know my class. I am happy to take any and all criticism or analysis on gear and enchants, but only if that person knows the class they are discussing.


That's what you do though...it's not hard to look up a guide and stat weights, int far outstrips everything else, on top of that mastery is your best secondary stat, assuming hit cap is reached already.
That's a fair opinion. I'm not sold on the mandatory idea either, but there's got to be some sort of push for it. Otherwise people are just not going to do it, and we're back to square one. I do like the prompt idea.

I'm thinking some kind of achieve system might useful with it too. If I'm organizing a raid, I'd love to be able to go "okay, this Shaman is a bit undergeared but he's completed all the training sessions regarding his class, so I'll take him".


I'm on the fence of whether this should be mandatory or not as well, probably best left optional so that if they do need it people around them can direct them to it.
Maybe what they could do is implement different difficulty levels, but only make completing the easiest one mandatory.

Maybe, when the player zones into this easiest difficulty, their gear could be replaced by equivalent 378 gear. Then, just give them a few simple tasks to complete. Pull 9-10k DPS. Run out a void zone within 6-7 seconds. Stuff that a lot of experienced players know everyone should be able to do anyways.
That's what you do though...it's not hard to look up a guide and stat weights, int far outstrips everything else, on top of that mastery is your best secondary stat.


Yes, it is, which is why now that I am over the soft cap, and my raid leader has told me 18% is fine, that is what will happen with my next 397 piece, which will be done after I cap valor this week and next.

I still have at least two 397 pieces to get, and use Noxxic as a guide on gems. Reforging can wait until then, when i get the chestpiece, which is the major item for this armour set, I can then go ahead and reforge.

It is a pain in the neck to keep reforging with every new piece, best to get optimal gearset and then reforge, to save running back and forth.

17% is a soft cap, 18% is slightly over but will maximise single target, high impact dps, which is my role. The mana pool is manageable, as long as I keep an eye on the mana used in burn phase. For interrupts I use DBM, study the fights, and practise constantly.

I know my class, I know warriors and dk's, and am starting a lock, as I am enjoying caster / ranged roles more than melee. Incidentally, had the above poster looked up the necessary sites as he says others need to do, he would have known that the gems in place are what Noxxic recommends.

My talent tree for arcane. is EJ's optimal build.

BTW, BIS gems are horribly expensive.
I think that is a great idea OP. Others have suggested similar in the past but you put a lot more thought into it and your suggested methods and structure for the feature, I believe really are the way to go.

I know I would use such a feature. I won't claim to be the worst player out there but I am far from the best and I could always use the help and practice.
02/29/2012 04:12 PMPosted by Zhenogre
That's what you do though...it's not hard to look up a guide and stat weights, int far outstrips everything else, on top of that mastery is your best secondary stat.


Yes, it is, which is why now that I am over the soft cap, and my raid leader has told me 18% is fine, that is what will happen with my next 397 piece, which will be done after I cap valor this week and next.

I still have at least two 397 pieces to get, and use Noxxic as a guide on gems. Reforging can wait until then, when i get the chestpiece, which is the major item for this armour set, I can then go ahead and reforge.

It is a pain in the neck to keep reforging with every new piece, best to get optimal gearset and then reforge, to save running back and forth.

17% is a soft cap, 18% is slightly over but will maximise single target, high impact dps, which is my role. The mana pool is manageable, as long as I keep an eye on the mana used in burn phase. For interrupts I use DBM, study the fights, and practise constantly.

I know my class, I know warriors and dk's, and am starting a lock, as I am enjoying caster / ranged roles more than melee. Incidentally, had the above poster looked up the necessary sites as he says others need to do, he would have known that the gems in place are what Noxxic recommends.

My talent tree for arcane. is EJ's optimal build.

BTW, BIS gems are horribly expensive.


I didn't notice you didn't have the 4 set, but if the socket gives only 10 int then you're better off getting that 40 int one instead of a 20/20 one, even more so I believe with the 50 int gems when you can get them, not sure why noxxic is suggesting that.
02/29/2012 03:27 PMPosted by Zhenogre
You're over hit cap

Yes. I know. And my raid leader knows, and my guildmaster knows, and they are both happy to leave it where it is, as am I, as 17% is a soft cap.


17% hit rating is not a soft cap, it is a hard cap. At 17% hit rating you have a 0% chance to miss on a raid boss(as indicated on your in-game character pane). Therefore any point above that rating(1742 hit rating for the exact value) is simply a wasted stat. With that said, it can be difficult to reach that precise value, but the goal is to be close to it as possible.

http://www.noxxic.com/pve/mage/arcane/gems-and-enchants

You will notice that my gems match what Noxxic recommends. We may have a JC who can do the BIS ones, I will look into it, but not if the mats cost exceeds the AH cost.

Also here

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3789699751

Whilst is it not the most optimal build (if there really is such a thing) the gems I have are a good match and a good mix for my class, based on data from these places and advice I have received.

The gems and enchants meet one specific criteria which is essential: they work.

Re the hit cap, okay, fair comment, I will get in game and look at a reforge, but only if that reforge will not drop me below 17.
D; you cant like it more than once... :(
Okay, hit is now 17.47, any more and I will have to reforge again as it will place me under cap.

That's as close as it gets. Slightly over will have to do.
Just make it mandatory, and give worthwhile rewards for doing it (perhaps something to help better their character, like a few high-end enchanting mats).

There, now everyone is happy.

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