[PvP] Destruction Warlock MoP Talents Choices

Warlock
Okay, i don't feel comfortable at all with all those very very hard choices.
Example with the second line, AoE Fear Death Coil or Shadowfury? I'm used to use them all to set a kill or to peel, i think shadowfury should be a spell you "passively" have when you spec into destruction. What will happen now to soul link, it is useless if it also share healing. The only thing that soul link will be good at is reducing burst to give more time to your healer. Dark Bargain (Prevents dmg 10 sec but when it fades it does 50% of all damage prevented) is literally a suicide.. no? should be at least usuable while stunned. The 4th line is kinda scary, the sprint look like a hellfirex100 and the "pro-trinket" is hella scary but looks very good, but blood fear would be awesome too, easier to set a kill without getting interrupted or even having to fake cast. Oh and someone have an idea of what fel imp abilities will look like = D?
And the last one, Kiljaedens Or Archimonde? Does Kiljaedens worth it if you stack a lot of haste, does Archimonde worth it to put up some pressure? Oh well, it's so complicated. I feel like a girl right now -.-' .

What would your choices look like?
*Just in case, sorry for my poor english.*
just wait a week into mop before elitist jerks deduces the cookie cutter spec for raiding, armory snutz for pvp
I don't pve at all.. oh well i did last month to get Bottled Wishes but that's it. I think MoP pve and pvp spec are gonna be way more different.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-of-pandaria/feature/talent-calculator#Vb!010200

Not sure what OP means by everything being complicated. I feel like Pvp in MoP will be more about figuring out how to live the longest instead of the CC-clusterfV(k it is today.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-of-pandaria/feature/talent-calculator#VZ!212020

Thats what I want =D Dark Bargain isn't so much suicide in my opinion. I see 2 huge ways to use it. If your healer is being CC'd and your taking a lot of damage, you can prolong when the damage comes in so your healer can deal with it later. Or if you have 5 people on you and your gonna die anyway, use it so you get an extra 10 seconds.
You're assuming bgs though, I do more arenas
Assuming the talent trees are staying as they are, I will be using this.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-of-pandaria/feature/talent-calculator#Vb!212101

We aren't going to be GCD locked (kind of like a rogue) in MoP. Harvest Life acts as a nice filler seeing as it costs very little mana. I don't see myself casting Incinerate anymore than I do now so Soul Leech is a big no in PvP. Looks amazing in PvE though. It seems as if most people are attracted to Dark Regeneration. If you taking enough damage as to where you need to use this, and Unending Resolve, Dark Bargain, and Ember Tap, and Mortal Coil aren't keeping you alive, This will not help very much.

Mortal Coil heal is simply too large to not take, Although Shadowfury will probably be better in bg's seeing as it synchs with the new Rain of Fire nicely. I can't see myself taking Howl of Terror over the other two. Destro, in MoP, are getting enough kiting spells and defensive cool downs to make an instant AoE fear not appealing.

Destruction locks in MoP loose Demonic Rebirth and Soulburn-Pet summon. Soul Link becomes useless, and Sacrificial Pact is basically suicide for your pet. Dark Bargain is too good. If your healer gets caught in a full cc chain while you are being bursted, this WILL save you.

It's a toss up between Blood Fear and Burning Rush. If I am right about how Burning Rush will work, it will be, hands down, the best spell in the game. See a mage polymorphing you? Throw on Burning Rush to break it. If it doesn't work like this, then Blood Fear it is.

We need more info on this teir to make a decision. Supremacy looks very nice, although we don't know the updated Succy/Felpup skills. Depending on how Destructive Influence turns out, and if we can control the second demon, Service may be damn well strong.
My big worry though is Sacrifice will be a must. Not being able to instant summon a pet when your's dies is very worrying. We may have to take this just to negate that.

There really is no other option other than Kil'Jaeden's Cunning for PvP Destro locks. Mannoroth's fury only effects Rain of Fire. Archimonde's Vengeance makes me laugh. PvP is about avoiding damage. Why would you want a skill that deals damage when you take it? No thanks. Besides, Cunning turns Harvest Life into a AoE Drain Life that can be cast while moving. Cunning also helps with kiting and LoS issues.

Just my thoughts.

Edit: Added more op opinions. :)
02/26/2012 03:51 PMPosted by Barlucedan
We aren't going to be GCD locked (kind of like a rogue) in MoP. Harvest Life acts as a nice filler seeing as it costs very little mana.


Again, bgs not arenas. Also, I would think for this to be really effective one ought to go aff.

02/26/2012 03:51 PMPosted by Barlucedan
Soul Link becomes useless, and Sacrificial Pact is basically suicide for your pet. Dark Bargain is too good. If your healer gets caught in a full cc chain while you are being bursted, this WILL save you.


I was thinking the same, except I'm worried that if they keep attacking and "overkill" damage, it's also suicide. I'm curious as to what the actual Link % will be for damage and also for healing (hoping and assuming it's different if slightly)



02/26/2012 03:51 PMPosted by Barlucedan
It's a toss up between Blood Fear and Burning Rush


Did you not notice the TWENTY SECOND COOLDOWN on the pvptrink talent?...



02/26/2012 03:51 PMPosted by Barlucedan
PvP is about avoiding damage. Why would you want a skill that deals damage when you take it?


You're reading wrong. It transfer 30% of all damage everyone else does to you, and also that you do to yourself, over to an attacker.
02/26/2012 03:58 PMPosted by Baalsamael
Again, bgs not arenas. Also, I would think for this to be really effective one ought to go aff.

I don't know if you read it or not, but there was more info released about Destro in MoP. We aren't going to be GCD locked much like rogues are now. We won't ALWAYS have to be casting something to do the most damage possible. This will make it so we can always be casting something, and it heals a decent amount.

02/26/2012 03:58 PMPosted by Baalsamael
Did you not notice the TWENTY SECOND COOLDOWN on the pvptrink talent?...

The damage is far too great to make it worth it, at least imo.
Edit: Remember, The healers mana = your health.

02/26/2012 03:58 PMPosted by Baalsamael
You're reading wrong. It transfer 30% of all damage everyone else does to you, and also that you do to yourself, over to an attacker.

To deal 1/3 of someones health through this talent, you would have to take enough damage in 10 seconds to die. No thanks. Casting while moving, even if at double the cast times, is far too strong for a spec that relies so much on hard casts.
02/26/2012 04:05 PMPosted by Barlucedan
I don't know if you read it or not, but there was more info released about Destro in MoP. We aren't going to be GCD locked much like rogues are now. We won't ALWAYS have to be casting something to do the most damage possible. This will make it so we can always be casting something, and it heals a decent amount.


I was referring to the fact it's shadow damage. u.u



The damage is far too great to make it worth it, at least imo.
Edit: Remember, The healers mana = your health.


And if you do blood fear, which you'll prolly need to double cast since people will now just trink out of it, that's 20% as it replaces fear entirely. THAT'S too dangerous imo, having a core CC spell be replaced and cost 10% every time.



02/26/2012 04:05 PMPosted by Barlucedan
To deal 1/3 of someones health through this talent, you would have to take enough damage in 10 seconds to die. No thanks. Casting while moving, even if at double the cast times, is far too strong for a spec that relies so much on hard casts.


Except Archi's talent gives also a 5% passive constant damage transfer to whoever attacks you. So yeah, constant 5% damage transfer, jumping to 30%, versus a 6 second soul fire... riiiight.
02/26/2012 09:43 PMPosted by Baalsamael
I was referring to the fact it's shadow damage. u.u

There is nothing in the current talents that buffs our fire damage. It doesn't matter if it is fire or shadow damage. This spell is a filler spell that heals, and with cunning it is basically and AoE Drain Life that you can cast while moving. Very strong imo.

02/26/2012 09:43 PMPosted by Baalsamael
And if you do blood fear, which you'll prolly need to double cast since people will now just trink out of it, that's 20% as it replaces fear entirely. THAT'S too dangerous imo, having a core CC spell be replaced and cost 10% every time.

Why does everyone think this? It doesn't say this. It used to, but not it doesn't anymore. Blizz changed it because people were completely against it.

02/26/2012 09:43 PMPosted by Baalsamael
Except Archi's talent gives also a 5% passive constant damage transfer to whoever attacks you. So yeah, constant 5% damage transfer, jumping to 30%, versus a 6 second soul fire... riiiight.
Constant 5% damage rebound eh? So if someone hits me for a 1k damage, they take.. 50 damage. You also chose the longest cast time spell to argue me with. Harvest Life + Cunning is simply amazing. There is no way to avoid it's awesomeness. An AoE Drain Life that you can cast while moving that heals for double while standing still? Come on now. Very strong.
Also, I can almost guarantee that you can start moving halfway through a spell and the remaining cast time will be doubled. A mage talent works somewhat like this.

Edit: Hi Sath.
One thing I noticed was that they changed it from 2% healed per target drained from, to 4% no matter what. So wouldn't that choice just make Drain Life do AoE damage, not single target, and have no real use in pvp? I was looking forward to metamorphosed flag carrying, with kil'jeadan's cunning and harvest life.

Or did they accidentally remove the "per target" part?
02/27/2012 07:51 AMPosted by Sathrago
Or did they accidentally remove the "per target" part?
They most likely cut it down to 4% standard. The problem with 2% per target in a 15 yard radius is that... well 10 players = 10% health per tick, this plus the 10% from Fel armor, would make warlocks nearly impossible to kill in group fights. What I suggest they do to fix this is to make it 1% per aoe target, 3% on the initial. This way it actually is an increase to drain life's single target healing, and then the AoE still gives you even more healing still when in team fights.

Sath, this would still heal for stupid amounts in places like Tol Barad.
But it is an amazing soultion in theory.
Something like 3% base heal, 4% if two targets, 4.5% if 3, 4.75% if 4, etc up to a 5%.

My 2 cents. Great idea though.
1) Blood Fear definitely replaces Fear. It's NOT a unique spell. Still a disgustingly badass talent, but it will be setup dependent on that vs. 20sec stun immunities.

2) Sfury vs. iHowl vs. DC is a great tier. If the choice was easy, it would kind of defeat the point. I can't really imagine ever picking up mortal coil, but Sfury (damn you new 30 sec CD) vs Howl with the CD reduction on being hit is going to be a huge debate.

3) On destro pvp - it's kind of impossible to judge until we see how the ember thing plays out. I do know that the spec would need to put out pretty much twice (not exagerating - 9K chaosbolts say hi) the burst it does currently to be competitive. On the bright side, the dispel revamp is godly for the dmg potential of destro in general.

4) Bubble vs. Pet Shield is interesting too (sorry SL - I think I'll go for active mitigation this time). We already have 50% SHieldwall/AM on a 3min CD baseline, so do we go the route of 2 big CDs? The 50% dmg taken debuff post bubble is over 20 sec, and most teams will just swap off you when they see the bubble, so the net impact of the 'debuff' is going to be minimal. But if our pets health scales well, the shield might be nicer on a 1min CD - currently it would be, what?, 130Kish? That's pretty nice for a short CD defenisve that can be layered with shieldwall if it gets dicey.

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