Restoration - Haste vs Mastery

Shaman
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Hello, I have created this thread to know what is better to stack, haste or mastery in the 10 man raid setting.

What I have simply done is get my haste to as close to 905, then just stack mastery. I have had a lot of ridicule, but I do better in 10 mans stacking mastery rather than hitting the 2005 haste cap (mainly because I don't have the 2pc T12 anymore).

So, if anyone can help me on this subject, which is solely better to stack for 10 mans, that would help me out a lot.

Thanks,

Hymlet
There is no correct answer. Some think haste is pointless since the 'only times you'd need it', you can just pop SWG and get the haste benefit. I stopped raiding when we were 3/8 with 200k from 4/8 (before the nerf), but I stacked both.

I reforged out of spirit until like 2100 (this was before I had the stacking spirit trinket from spine, as well) and just used TC to regen. This allowed me to hit the 2005 haste plateau (less as a goblin) AND have around 18 mastery.
If you do better with mastery, then that's your answer. There really isn't an argument when it comes to mastery/haste/crit, everywhere I've read and everything I've tried, it really comes down to what you're most comfortable with and what fits your play-style. I've tried all three. I'm trying Haste right now. I've never noticed a huge difference between any of them, except for maybe specific fights in specific locations, but again I could be in there with a shammy that uses a different stat and we could both be doing fine.

Do what feels right for you, don't listen to people telling you to do this or that. It's your game, and if it works, that's awesome.
haste wins if you're just sniping heals in situations where there is little real healing to do, mastery will win out if people get low and stay there more often.
I would certainly pick just one set to focus on... haste & crit since they help each other. The crit will keep your mana up and make you heal more while the haste will let you cast faster. Mostly it will benefit chain heal.

Mastery will make all your heals stronger depending on the targets health level.

If you are ever running with another shaman it is probably better to have one of you run mastery and one haste/crit.

There used to be another resto shaman in my guild and he ran crit/haste and I run mastery. We would be about equal in most fights. The shorter the fights he would edge me out the longer ones I would edge him out.

Just make sure to keep you haste at least above 916.
I would never recommend stacking crit to anyone. It's just unreliable and no good shaman does it because of this.
Ive found myself at the 2005 Haste mark and now im using my reforge lite to keep me at 2005 Haste and dump the rest into mastery without killing my Spr, id rather keep the balance between the 2 for w.e situation arises, just havent tested it a whole lot yet
02/18/2012 05:49 PMPosted by Bluebones
I would never recommend stacking crit to anyone. It's just unreliable and no good shaman does it because of this.


Makes me remember the blog GC did where he mentions that resto shams would value crit. Even though at no point in this expansion has crit been looked at as a favorable stat by the shaman community. Given that the blog was done when resto shaman whining was pretty high, makes you go... hmmmm. They don't want to tell you how to play. Take a hint. Devaluing crit this entire expansion has been kind of retarded. Granted the value of it will vary depending on your play style, but making statements like "no good shaman" would stack it is rather narrow minded. There are play styles that would value it. It outperforms mastery 70% of the time in the lfr's that I do on my shaman. Watching health pools in normal raids I would say that's probably close to the same.

But when you reallllly need healing.... mastery is king. Not saying haste or mastery is bad, just saying don't act like crit is the black sheep of the family.
02/19/2012 12:30 AMPosted by Primalfunk
There are play styles that would value it. It outperforms mastery 70% of the time in the lfr's that I do on my shaman.


LFR is not exactly a place to do a comparision lol. Crit and mastery would both be poor stats and haste would be king in terms of just looking for raid, because all you would be doing is sniping what little healing is needed to be done. Crit isn't used for a pure thruput stat it is used for when you want to keep a balance between maintaining mana and thruput. If you are having mana trouble during a fight and still can get by without the extra haste/mastery then you could go crit other than that it's not as favorable.

For the OP in 10mans haste to the 2005 breakpoint then mastery after that is usually what most people do. Typically you don't want to go for the 2005 breakpoint through unless you are able to maintain it without having to reforge out of any mastery to get it. With that being said you can't really go wrong with stacking either it simply comes down to personal preference.
02/19/2012 12:30 AMPosted by Primalfunk
I would never recommend stacking crit to anyone. It's just unreliable and no good shaman does it because of this.


Makes me remember the blog GC did where he mentions that resto shams would value crit. Even though at no point in this expansion has crit been looked at as a favorable stat by the shaman community. Given that the blog was done when resto shaman whining was pretty high, makes you go... hmmmm. They don't want to tell you how to play. Take a hint. Devaluing crit this entire expansion has been kind of retarded. Granted the value of it will vary depending on your play style, but making statements like "no good shaman" would stack it is rather narrow minded. There are play styles that would value it. It outperforms mastery 70% of the time in the lfr's that I do on my shaman. Watching health pools in normal raids I would say that's probably close to the same.

But when you reallllly need healing.... mastery is king. Not saying haste or mastery is bad, just saying don't act like crit is the black sheep of the family.


You can pretty much do whatever the hell you want and be successful in LFR. Analyzing what's best there has little practical value.

I also like how you pulled "it outperforms Mastery 70% of the time" out of your backside. Can you actually quantify that statement?

The statement "no good Shaman" is really meant to mean "Shaman doing any sort of progression raiding." It's correct - no Shaman in that situation who knows what they're doing is stacking crit.
Actually Hyjinx crit is a viable alternative in a progression setting. Crit can give us substantial gains via resurgence and has the benefit of being better than haste for TC in burst situations.

Unless the fight has people really low for a good portion of the encounter then crit/haste/mastery are all going to be very similar in terms of throughput, and playing in a manner that suits whichever one you chose will decide if it succeeds or fails.

I have tested just about every setup in actual raiding environments, and found high spirit/mastery to be the most well rounded, and the least reliant on TC (not to say it isnt used). This is in no way saying that the others are bad, but rather that i do not like having to stop healing to TC, and my playstyle and personal preference suits this build best.

OP test out the different setups and find which one suits you best. Do not blindly follow what others spout as being the best, because quite frankly they are not in your shoes. Your personal level of skill and playstyle along with that of your healing team's both greatly effect the returns you will see on different setups. Mastery even more so because it is devaluated by many factors outside of our control. the 5% nerfs to damage make mastery perform worse, people becoming more familiar with encounters and avoiding more damage does the same, and even that rogue in your raid getting a chest with 50 more stam causes it to become worth less due to the incoming damage to total health ratios changing.
Healing with a holy pally? Mastery.

Otherwise? Haste.

^ My personal opinion, having healed 8/8N on my shaman, and my partner being a resto shaman for 4/8H on my holy pally.

Anything that a haste build can cover will be covered by a holy pally much easier, and at a reduced mana cost, because holy radiance is stupid. If you don't have a holy pally with you, then a haste focused build allows you to soak up those extra heals, and maintain mana easier with faster Lightning Bolts.
This thread is new & exciting. ;)

Long story short:

Haste has 2 important breakpoints: 916 (gives HR & Riptide 1 extra tick), then 2005 (gives HR & Riptide 2 extra ticks).

Basically, you pick one of the breakpoints and stack Haste to that point. Once you hit that breakpoint, stack Mastery.

At a minimum you should aim for 916.

Beyond the 916 Haste breakpoint you have 2 options:
1) continue stacking Haste to 2005
or
2) stack Mastery

The 2005 breakpoint is difficult to reach until around ilvl 390. At/above ilvl 390 it is easy to reach the 2005 Haste breakpoint. After that, you stack Mastery.

Or, foregoing the 2005 Haste breakpoint, you can stay at the 916 breakpoint and stack Mastery sky high (I think I got up around 55% before I reforged out of Mastery). This build can be great for progression & heroic raiding, but may or may not be "better" than a 2005 Haste build. You will only ever see any benefit from a pure Mastery build when your target/team is at very low health. Whether that is better than a build that gives you faster casts and more HoT ticks is a matter of much debate and personal opinion. Ymmv.
916 is for the extra tick of ELW, and 2005 does not give a extra tick of HR. that dosn't happen till 3049 haste

also 1290(iirc) will net you the extra HR tick while under the effects of SWG 4pc
With the gear available to us, not using a balanced approach is silly in either difficulty. Stacking one specific stat is so last tier.
posting in a karrad thread
I have found that while trying to progress it is easier to have mastery as everyone will be lower health than on farm runs. I have reforged all my haste to mastery (to get as close to 917 as I can) and I am almost always in the top few of my raid. I feel that the 2k haste break point makes you lose too much of other stats. I have not done too much testing and this is from a 25m perspective so take it as you will.
if you really want to sacrifice some int and spirit you can stack mastery to over a up to 100% increase with out to much trouble. That is a 4540 rating or close to it and just over 33 mastery. I am fairly close to finishing a set and can currently hit 31.5 mastery with some normal and lfr gear.

I does make me lose about 2k sp unbuffed and about 500+ spirit. We will see what kind of numbers it can put out. I thought it would be fun to play with just to see how it does. I know there is a pally that did something similar and got some crazy shield amounts (it was only really useful on tanks). I expect the loss in sp and spirit will no be worth it... still up to a 100% increase in heals. lol
@Fragglerock:

That sounds like a horrible idea. That said, give some *real* numbers for your gear sets. I'd be curious to run them through my spreadsheets for a giggle and see if there's even a hint of viability there.

I suspect, however, that unless you do a majority of your healing at *very* low health levels, it'll be significantly behind.

If you wish to throw out real numbers, include all of the numbers: Haste, crit, mastery, spirit and spellpower.

:)
Crit is not a mana gaining stat. Because in order to gain mana, you had to spend a whole lot more mana for a chance to gain back mana via Resurgence. So you're still in the negative for mana spent.

Therefore Crit should be viewed as a spell cost reduction stat, for all intents and purposes.

The more Crit you have, the cheaper your spells cost. Still not really a good choice for progression though.

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