Winners and Losers of the Cataclysm

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I agree with all you said, though the rankings may be different for me. I'd put Garrosh further ont he winner list. Not only is all that stuff you said true, but Garrosh had some moments of epicness. Both the scenes in Stone Talon and Silverpine were wonderful.

Some of these are okay.

Garrosh being a winner? No. Not even worthy of the top 10 spot. He's in the loser bracket merely for Metzen's statement at Blizzcon.

Also paragon? They have nothing to do with the story of the game. You wasted a spot.

Aska Mistrunner and Harrison Jones are also not worthy of Winners or Losers. Anything that is a pop culture reference, especially one on such a large scale as Harrison Jones running around Uldum.

Likewise, how is a no-name npc that will make no impact on the actual story at large actually be considered a "Winner".

Thrall may have been a winner on a personal level, but nothing more. He is a disease on the lore, and he should be retired posthaste.

Neptulon being the biggest loser? Hardly, maybe #4.

#1 biggest loser this expansion are the players who wanted a quality Blizzard weaved story.
As great as the Gilneas storyline with the Forsaken was, it still was Darius doing all the cool parts. Genn was pretty much crying in his tree house. This thread is saying that the Alliance -leaders- did nothing cool.
02/26/2012 12:35 PMPosted by Ilthen
On the guys that had the worst, I would have brought up the Night Elves, maybe the Worgen, too.


The Night Elves got more in Cataclysm than any other race. They're fine.
03/02/2012 06:10 PMPosted by Vyrin
The Night Elves got more in Cataclysm than any other race. They're fine.


More then... the Forsaken?
03/02/2012 06:22 PMPosted by Onimontu
The Night Elves got more in Cataclysm than any other race. They're fine.


More then... the Forsaken?


Sorry, I meant Alliance race. Orcs and Forsaken have Night Elves topped.
The Problem with what the Night Elves got in Cataclysm was that it was either:

A) Them getting their asses kicked by the Horde

or

B) Neutral-focused content that focused on the Night Elves inexplicably allying with the people who are kicking their asses in.

So while they certain GOT face-time in Cataclysm, most of it was pretty damn demoralizing to most actual Nelf players and enthusiasts.
Awesome list!

I agree with most of the entries in both Winners and Losers list.

But I would add an important character to the Losers Hall... And in my opinion he matches even Neptulon in the number 1 spot...

Deathwing, the big bad of the expansion himself.

Being one of the most dangerous enemies in the entire Warcraft lore, he surely did not get the treatment he deserved. He is clever, cunning, strategist in the lore, while in-game he is not more than a Big-Bad-Fire-Breathing Dragon.

He even got better treatment in the short story about Thrall and the Aspects that came before patch 4.3 was laucnhed... Which made me hope he was going to get some depth... But that didn´t happen.

He is not even such a respectable encounter, I am seeing quite a number of guilds kiling him in Heroic. It seems Ragnaros was the hardest encounter in this expansion, when compared to when he was current content.
http://www.wowpedia.org/Chromatus
I feel like Chromatus from Twilight of the Aspects was kind of forgotten. I mean, he's a freaking abomination of a dragon, and even the dragon aspects don't know if they killed him or not. Seriously Blizzard. Crazy dragon, one head from each flight, completely viable for a comeback. Hm, maybe he would have fit in a raid called...oh, I dunno...DRAGON SOUL. Do you have any idea how cool that fight would have been? Not only could you have each head use it's different powers, but you could have had them combine as well! Can you imagine if it used it's green powers to put you to sleep while its blue powers drained all of your mana? Then you could use it's bronze powers against it to get that mana back. All this time, the aspects could be trying to counter its attacks with their own powers.
So sick of everything turning into a big Ally cryfest "Blizzard hates us", "They would never do that to the Horde". Enough already Blizzard gives the Horde some love finally and Vanilla, BC and LK are forgotten when the Horde were treated like 2nd class players. Cata has showed just how childish and selfish Alliance players are just like AV showed us with the Horde being 5 seconds closer. Allies are going to whine claim favortismand just plain leave like the SPOILED FAVORITE CHILDREN OF BLIZZARD THAT THEY ARE when their sibling gets some overdue love. Don't worry plummeting subscriber numbers will ensure that Blizz never again gives the Horde the love they deserve.
03/03/2012 07:29 AMPosted by Uthtal
So sick of everything turning into a big Ally cryfest "Blizzard hates us", "They would never do that to the Horde". Enough already Blizzard gives the Horde some love finally and Vanilla, BC and LK are forgotten when the Horde were treated like 2nd class players. Cata has showed just how childish and selfish Alliance players are just like AV showed us with the Horde being 5 seconds closer. Allies are going to whine claim favortismand just plain leave like the SPOILED FAVORITE CHILDREN OF BLIZZARD THAT THEY ARE when their sibling gets some overdue love. Don't worry plummeting subscriber numbers will ensure that Blizz never again gives the Horde the love they deserve.


You sound like a petulant child.

Vanilla sucked for everybody, BC had some great connections for the Horde (even though the lore was a bastardized husk of its former self, begging to be put down) and Wrath introduced some interesting plot possibilities. It felt more Alliance, because it used Alliance themes everywhere you turned, but both sides had some decent story foundations laid.

That being said, what happened in Cataclysm was unacceptable. Everyone should be rallying against it, so it doesn't happen again. If Blizzard is in that position again, where they have to cut a bunch of content and make things kinda suck for one side, do you really think they'll hit the Alliance again? No, especially when they've said MoP is going to be a major time to shine for the Alliance. The Horde will be on the suffering end if it happens again, with most likely more villain batting and some stupid-ball play time.

For a healthy game, we need both sides presented well.
03/03/2012 02:47 AMPosted by Arshia
Got beaten up and dumped on more in Cataclysm than any other race. It's always wonderful when a race written originally as the perfect warriors can't even give a black eye to a bunch of Orcs while fighting on their home turf. Never mind the endless assault from demons, twilight's hammer, and every other evil force outside of the Horde. And all this while having Malfurion welcome Night Elven enemies with open arms and Tyrande doing nothing at all. No lore is better than this Cata story.


Yeah, it's kind of sad the Night Elves get a more imposing depiction from the Horde point of view than the Alliance one.

03/02/2012 04:56 PMPosted by Arathrus
What did Metzen say about Garrosh at Blizzcon?


Garrosh Hellscream was a stepping stone for Thrall's storyline, and was a plot device to make Thrall look better by comparisson.
03/03/2012 04:22 PMPosted by Seebach
What did Metzen say about Garrosh at Blizzcon?


Garrosh Hellscream was a stepping stone for Thrall's storyline, and was a plot device to make Thrall look better by comparisson.


Yet another epic fail on Metzen's part in his attempts to Mary Sue his green Jesus.

Being one of the most dangerous enemies in the entire Warcraft lore, he surely did not get the treatment he deserved. He is clever, cunning, strategist in the lore, while in-game he is not more than a Big-Bad-Fire-Breathing Dragon.


Yeah, I was really dissapointed on how Blizz handled Deathwing. At the begining of Cat it seemed obvious to me that DW had a hidden agenda, leaving breadcrumbs for us 'heroes' to follow. (Given that he could have easily obliterated all the major cities upon his suprise emergence instead of some trivial damage here and there.)

When the rogue legendary questlines appeared I thought I had figured out what DW was up to. I thought a part of him realized that he was doomed with the old gods increasing corruption and intitiated a subtle plot to free himself. The uncorrupted Prince was to be his new body that he would transfer to at the moment of his 'death'. The purpose of the legendary daggers were to draw off the old gods corruption at the moment of transfer so he would be free of their influence in his new body. At that point he would fly off into the sunset congratulating us on his 'defeat', mocking us that he couldn't have saved himself without our help.

That ending would have tied up a lot of lose ends in the Cat plotline and preserved an uncorrupted DW for future use. An uncorrupted DW could have been used pretty much in any fashion since he didn't need to be a "I'm gonna conquer/destroy the world" villain (though he would still be a 'd@ck').
@Anvilfist -

I can see from first glance that if you didn't really get a good look at some of the behind the scenes of Cataclysm's makings that you could make a basis like that.

The dwarves lost big in lore. They put everything about the Council of 3 hammers into a 3rd party medium that I imagine more than 90% of the gaming population didn't purchase. It was in a book called, "The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm", and it detailed how the Dark Irons and the Wildhammer returned and became a part of the Alliance - at the tip of a sword that could have started a 2nd Dwarven Civil War.

Afterwards, nothing was really conveyed in game, and the story suffered from it. The overall identity of the Dwarven empire still doesn't register.

You say "We also got Fargo Flintlocke", so I want to assume you know who Dave Kosak is and that you know about the web series, "Fargo Flintlocke vs. the Horde". If I assume wrong, then let me go ahead and shed some light.

Dave Kosak is the lead quest designer for World of Warcraft: Cataclysm, and Fargo Flintlock, as well as the series I mentioned above, is his creation.

Back before we just rode a seaplane out to Twilight Highlands, there was supposed to be this grand questline to go out there, of where you lead Anduin around to figure out what was going on in Stormwind. It would have culminated in the discovery that Archbishop Benedictus, the most holiest of Stormwinds Priests of the Light, was in fact working for Deathwing, and that he runs off as Varian Wrynn would have tried to dispense justice. It also would have ended in the story of the Alliance navy landing at the Highlands.

What we got in its place was a travesty. We just "black out" and appear on the Highlands. no great navy intro, no Kurdran Wildhammer showing up on the docks to greet the players.

No, we got Fargo Flintlocke, which is apparently more important that good structured lore.

Fargo Flintlocke is an abortion on this game, a tired clichéd character created in web comic by the lead quests designer.

But I guess that's okay isn't it? That he got to put Double F into the game.

At least we have one more thing to hate.

However, as I reflect back on this, the dwarves are still not the #1 losers in the Cataclysm.

The #1 losers are still the players, and I hope that somewhere, Blizzard realizes this, and somehow finds a way to apologize, and make sure it never happens again.
You really need to alter the title of this thread to "for the horde" edition cause this is all nicely written but it reads as a strictly and prohibitively from the horde perspective.

Really prevents people from seeing much else.


I've seen you post before, and I'm trying to guess if you are ironically trolling, or just plain trolling.

Exactly what did the Alliance have to be proud of?

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