Dev Watercooler – MoP Looting Explained

General Discussion
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03/27/2012 01:45 PMPosted by Mokry
make 384ilvl items unique so even if someone wins a roll, but has the item cannot receive and passes it to 2nd winner. Same with tiers, if you have tier related to your current spec on you, in your bags or bank- it goes to another person. Also if you have the tier of/or higher ilvl item then the one you are rolling for ( same trink ) you cant win.


I agree with this actually
if that is the future of valor, than i feel pretty confident in saying that the fulfillment of my annual pass will conclude my subscription. I'll be looking for this "feature" on the BETA.
As things currently stand, the fastest way to get guardian or prot paladin loot in LFR will be to queue up as a healer, swap specs just before a boss pull, and that hope the other five healers can carry you through the fight. Will the system do anything to prevent this?
If the system has already decided you've won a piece (if on LFR) or your raid has chosen you as the recipient for a piece (if on normal/heroic), can you use a Charm for a chance at another item from the same boss kill?
03/27/2012 01:45 PMPosted by Prospirit
I think the new system makes your background roll independent from everyone else's. That way, you're not taking loot from anyone else or decreasing their chance at getting their own piece of loot. I'm not sure they've clarified how it'll work for Master Looter, though.


What I am trying to say is if the top 4 rollers win loot, and I am among the top 4 rollers, I have in a sense taken gear from another raider in the group. Yes I did not take an individual item per say, but I took away their chance at it because I rolled.

Example: Rollers in Order
Jimmy
Tom
Lisa
Me
Jill

Jimmy, Tom, Lisa and myself all have items off this boss that we can actually use in a spec appropriate way. I am not after the gear I just enjoy watching bosses die. So Jill who IS after a shiny didn't in fact get one. so in THAT sense, I took her gear.


But, I don't think that's how it works. Your roll is entirely independent of everyone else's. The bosses don't have a set number of pieces they will drop. It's more of a threshold roll (i.e., every roll above "80" wins a piece of spec-appropriate loot, assuming the boss' loot table has one for their spec).

There is no longer the concept of "top X rolls." You're only competing against yourself - if your roll is high enough, you win. Theoretically, if all 25 people roll high enough, they all can win.

You are not affecting anyone else's chance to win. Said another way, your "win" of loot in your example above doesn't remove a chance at a piece of loot from any of the other people.
Will tier tokens drop in raid finder, or will we now just get spec-appropriate tier pieces?

One concern I have with dropping only spec-appropriate gear is that it may cause people to queue inefficiently. Say I'm queuing up on my restoration/enhancement shaman. I've already farmed up all the restoration gear, and now I want to work on my enhancement set. The most efficient thing to do, in terms of filling out raid groups, would be for me to queue up as Healer/DPS, since I can then fill whatever role is needed. If I queue up only as DPS because I only want enhancement gear, then that makes queue times longer for everyone.

No DPS dude is going to ninja the tanking shield that you need for your guild to progress.


Whoa, whoa, whoa. Didn't you get the memo? There's no ninja looting in World of Warcraft.
What happens to say off spec items? What if you're on an arms warrior and your offspec is prot. Do you have a chance to get prot gear from the loot or is it only limited to your main spec.
03/27/2012 01:50 PMPosted by Paloruky
What happens to say off spec items? What if you're on an arms warrior and your offspec is prot. Do you have a chance to get prot gear from the loot or is it only limited to your main spec.


I believe you're eligible only for the role you currently perform. So you won't receive off-spec loot. This may change down the road (or may not).
We understand some players are interested in off-spec or transmogrification loot, and we will consider future changes to the system to accommodate those desires. However, we’re not sure fundamentally that Raid Finder is the best avenue for acquiring that loot. You would either need to take it from another player who actually desires it for their main spec, or a conversation would have to take place to make sure nobody else needed it more than you do. In other words, you would have to stop people from just rolling Need whenever they could.

Notice that you aren’t rolling Need or Greed. You don’t have an option to Pass. The game just says “Take this.”


These two statements are at odds with each other. If everyone's reward is independent of everyone else's, how would you be taking loot from other players by being awarded offspec gear?

Personally I would like to have an option that you can set to "opt in" to win gear for a specific spec, a "Roll" option in addition to the "Role" option so to speak. Also the "Role" option should consist of the specs as listed in your talent trees, not just the tank/dps/healer options we get now. That way I can still queue as a resto healer, which is a role that the system always seems to require, while still getting gear for my elemental DPS offspec. My "Role" would be Restoration and my "Roll" would conceivably be Elemental in my case. That way I can continue to meet the system's demand for healers while gathering gear for my offspec role.
But, I don't think that's how it works. Your roll is entirely independent of everyone else's. The bosses don't have a set number of pieces they will drop. It's more of a threshold roll (i.e., every roll above "80" wins a piece of spec-appropriate loot, assuming the boss' loot table has one for their spec).


I may be mistaken, but I am pretty sure I read somewhere else that each boss will only be handing out 4 pieces of gear, and if someone rolls high but has no spec-appropriate gear on that boss they will receive gold and will move down the list until 4 pieces of gear have been awarded
We understand some players are interested in off-spec or transmogrification loot, and we will consider future changes to the system to accommodate those desires


My meager suggestion for this would be a pop-up similar to the roll window specifically for the multi-role classes and allow them to pick tank, dps or healer as their desired loot and then a spec specific piece of loot is determined

So it would look like this

  • The boss dies.
  • Each player has a chance to win loot, independent of the other players.
  • For each player who wins loot, the game provides an option to select a spec
  • The game randomly assigns them the selected spec-appropriate item from that boss’s loot table.
  • Regarding valor points used for upgrading gear instead of buying new gear, will loot drop rates be adjusted to compensate for the fact that we aren't acquiring new gear half as fast as we would otherwise be if valor gear could be purchased?

    I would rather not run the same raid twice as long to gear up because I couldn't fill in missing pieces with valor.

    Related question: In Cataclysm, there were complaints that the bosses didn't drop many options for some gear slots. In some cases, there was only one piece of loot in Tier 11, dropped from one boss, that was appropriate for a given spec.

    Will loot drops be more...varied/spread out than they were in Cataclysm? Meaning, will there be more than one Bracers Of Needed Spec drop amongst the raid bosses of the current tier? Or am I still hosed for the week if they don't drop from the one boss that has the Bracers Of Needed Spec? Without the ability to buy Valor gear to fill the gaps, the problems of such deficiencies are magnified.
    03/27/2012 01:42 PMPosted by Benzine
    Yeah, that would be swell. You know how many people would walk up to the boss mid-fight, hit it once and then just stand there and wait for it to die?


    I would say not many, since if you've already made the effort to be there, why not just go through your rotation? But it never ceases to amaze me what lengths people who pay to play a game will go to to avoid playing said game, so you may be right.
    03/27/2012 01:52 PMPosted by Prospirit
    But, I don't think that's how it works. Your roll is entirely independent of everyone else's. The bosses don't have a set number of pieces they will drop. It's more of a threshold roll (i.e., every roll above "80" wins a piece of spec-appropriate loot, assuming the boss' loot table has one for their spec).


    I may be mistaken, but I am pretty sure I read somewhere else that each boss will only be handing out 4 pieces of gear, and if someone rolls high but has no spec-appropriate gear on that boss they will receive gold and will move down the list until 4 pieces of gear have been awarded


    It seems like that approach would contradict Ghostcrawler's statement that "Each player has a chance to win loot, independent of the other players." If the boss only has 4 pieces of loot, then your chance is dependent on other players rolling higher than you.
    Why does Valor need to exist in any form?

    It has gone from something I could mostly ignore (due to accruing the currency in raids - my preferred activity) to something that will be more mandatory than ever for progression purposes and accrued primarily from trivial and uninteresting content one month after the expansion is released (i.e. dungeons and scenarios).

    You've placed Valor squarely in the min-max equation for raiders and simultaneously paved the path to said Valor through content they could care less about.
    Jim Bob is a warrior.

    Greg is obviously trolling us. You can't have spaces on your character name.
    03/27/2012 01:59 PMPosted by Hoffdruid
    Jim Bob is a warrior.

    Greg is obviously trolling us. You can't have spaces on your character name.


    I thought the troll was that people still play warriors... ;)
    03/27/2012 01:45 PMPosted by Mokry
    No offense but this game is being destroyed the blizzard, you want to stop lfr loot abuse? simply make 384ilvl items unique so even if someone wins a roll, but has the item cannot receive and passes it to 2nd winner. Same with tiers, if you have tier related to your current spec on you, in your bags or bank- it goes to another person. Also if you have the tier of/or higher ilvl item then the one you are rolling for ( same trink ) you cant win.
    Did you even read the blog? Everyone has an independent shot at a reward now. The "first winner" won't get a tier piece. They'll get a nice gem or a gold reward instead. There won't be a "second winner" now because everyone is independently rolling against the system. If one guy rolls a 98 and the another rolls a 96 both players win something. If every single player in the raid rolls a 98 every single player wins something. If everyone rolls a 2 no one wins anything. You suggestion makes no sense in context of the information given by the blog post.
    03/27/2012 01:25 PMPosted by Benzine
    Can you also use Valor points to upgrade PvP gear? It seems like that would force PvP players to do PvE content, so I assume it's not an option?


    This.

    In addition how will pve gear that is upgraded through valor points function in pvp situations? The idea of the new pvp power stat was to ensure that pvp gear is always better for pvp than pve gear is. It seems that having heroic pve gear that is further enhanced by valor point upgrades leads to the possibility that the highest level pve gear may be the best option for pvpers.

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