Dev Watercooler – MoP Looting Explained

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03/27/2012 01:53 PMPosted by Strïke
lol at the "Check it out in beta if you get the chance."

I giggled immensely at this as well.
Naomi is a hunter.


I bet she has a step brother named Frank Jaeger.

In Mists of Pandaria, Valor will be used to power a new feature that allows you to increase the item level of your existing epic items. This means that each week, you can become a little more powerful, hopefully allowing you to kill that boss that has eluded you thus far. There will be a bit of a game in trying to decide when to upgrade your gear versus hoping for a new piece to drop from a raid boss, but our plan is that even heroic gear can be upgraded slightly in this way.


The loot ilvl upgrading system through valor definitely needs more elaboration, and I understand that the idea isn't fully sound yet. Reforging was a nice touch to the game since it didn't require a profession to access, unlike gems and glyphs, so please don't make this new upgrade system require or gain benefit from professions.

And about gems: You really need to do something about gems. If you're going to add/force sockets to gear by default then add another way to acquire gems, kinda like how it was in BC. You could get them off heroic bosses or buy them off certain vendors, or even buy completing a quest. Not to mention how blacksmith's perk is to add gem slots gear? That never made sense. Should've just made that jewelcrafting's perk and gave blacksmiths something that makes sense.

The same goes for glyphs. They should never have been available solely through inscription. Add another way to obtain them, or give inscription something else.

Enchanting is fine as it is since there aren't any "missing holes" in your character or gear because of it. Enchanting simply adds to what's already there . It's not important, but it helps give you that extra "oomph".

Professions shouldn't be part of the gearing process. They should just be a way to make it more flexible. I'm not even all that keen on professions making gear more powerful. They really should just make it "different" in a "better" way, like how Reforging is. They make life easier if you take the time out and use them. They won't make life better, but they won't make life worse.
There should be a rule that if a player ALREADY owns the item they cannot roll, or if they have a better gear slot already than they can't roll, of course only in their level appropriate raids such as only 90 so people can still get Transmogrifications, but of course you will have to find out the main stats and have a program thingy in WoW that calculates everything to decide what is better..........
Alright, many of you are missing the point of this change in LFR. It works like this.

Say you slaughter the boss. Congrats! Now, before the loot is even generated, it chooses winners and the losers. THIS IS A PERSONAL LOOT. The loot does not come from a pool of loot as it does now, it is generated for you, and only you. It is you versus the house, not the other looters.
It kinda looks like this:
Three rogues need a new dagger (or some rogue stuff)
They down the boss. woot.
The second the boss is downed, the game calculates if rogue one wins something. And then rogue two. And rogue three. And everyone else.
All three could possibly win a [Panda fang of DOOM] or none at all. If the pro rogue gets it and the noob rogue gets it, the pro did not steal the roll in any way. Its just the luck of the draw.
This all sounds pretty good to me.

My only concerns are around the valor changes. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I like vendor gear. It's reassuring to know I'm guaranteed to get X piece of gear if I put in Y amount of effort. Also, if you can't upgrade gear very far (eight ilevel points really isn't a huge deal in the greater scheme of things), I see valor being devalued by quite a fair bit, which might leave people less inclined to participate in the activities need to acquire it.
Well, almost. If the boss has no appropriate gear in its loot table for the person then I imagine they'll win gold.
Sorry for the ambiguity there, but in my opinion loot includes gold, gems, shards, tier tokens, and gear. I guess you could argue that gold is not always loot because it's often distributed evenly among the group, but I think in this case it would count as loot because it's being given only to the winner.
I echo Marco's question about whether people will be able to switch spec's upon entering the raid and how it will affect loot distribution. Going from healer to dps just to avoid queue times would be pretty sadistic, especially if you had 5 healers all thinking the same thing.

As it pertains to off-spec, I'm translating the replies I've seen so far as "What if I want to play as a different spec but don't want to take the same kind of time in gearing my toon as I did for my main spec?" The answer is: tough. The reason you won't be able to get your off-set gear is because you're not filling that role in the raid. If you want that gear, fill that role; if you're not geared enough to fill that role, then craft and run heroics like you're supposed to.
I can't believe this concept is so difficult for people to grasp. With all of the clarification in that post, I still see people saying things like "we should be able to pass" or "I don't like that I might be taking an item away from someone who actually needs it."

I don't think they could have made it any more clear in that post, but here's my attempt:

Your chance of winning loot does not affect and is not affected by other players' chances of winning loot!

All this garbage about "top rolls" or "only 4 drops per boss" or whatever is completely contradicted by the details in the blog. Why is this so hard to comprehend?
One possibility, speaking from statistical angle is they could implement a system such as this:

Max = Maximum amount of loots they want handed out on a boss
Min = Minimum amount of loots they want handed out on a boss

System performs a check, rolling once for each player. Each player that rolls 85 or higher (16% chance) is flagged by the system to receive a loot item.

Once all checks are performed, system compares the total number of players flagged to receive an item to see if it falls in the Min-Max range. If not, it wipes all flags and starts over.

You could argue that from a player perspective, if the system forces a reroll, the other players have affected my chance to receive loot. However, statistically, each set of rolls is independent of the previous set. Thus your chance to receive an item is statistically independent of all of the other players' rolls.

Anyhow, just a thought of how this might actually be working behind the scenes. A lot of programming that the average person probably doesn't need to worry about... but all of us right now are very curious about.

Any chance a programmer would be willing to give us an answer to how the current incarnation of the system works in technical terms?
My only suggestion is that when you win an item from Raid Finder, you should get the option of main spec or off spec. Now I do know that you can always just Que up in your off spec, but some people just do not have the gear needed, so they want to gear it up using RF. If this is used, maybe also for Bonus loot as well. If you win an epic piece, it asks "main spec or off spec"?
Why does Valor need to exist in any form?

It has gone from something I could mostly ignore (due to accruing the currency in raids - my preferred activity) to something that will be more mandatory than ever for progression purposes and accrued primarily from trivial and uninteresting content one month after the expansion is released (i.e. dungeons and scenarios).

You've placed Valor squarely in the min-max equation for raiders and simultaneously paved the path to said Valor through content they could care less about.


Exactly my thoughts ^^^
How can the charm of good fortune possibly work if your raid uses Master looter? That seems very..... I don't know.

Other than that, the new LFR loot system sounds fantastic. It eliminates two problems in one, pug loot drama, and guilds exploiting LFR for easy gear.
please add this in LFD including low lvl dungeons.
This new LFR loot system is infinitely better than any other loot system you've implemented.

Please make this apply to all raids, including normal and heroic guild raids. Raid guild drama is mostly caused by loot drama, and that's the biggest reason I don't raid anymore. This would eliminate it.
i go my vishaka not because i won the roll, but because some other hunter rolled and won it. incidentally that hunter also had it to begin with. one of the biggest contributor to the grief is people who roll on things they don't need or aren't spec'ed for. if everything is all random and system controlled, this will at the very least focus the rage on the RNG gods.
"If my raiding guild is about to take on a world boss, and some lonely hunter is asking to join the group (it's always a lonely hunter, isn't it?), it would be nice to be able to bring him on without worrying about that jerk taking loot away from me or my friends. We want to foster a "the more the merrier" attitude with world bosses."

Isn't this completely nullified by adding mounts to both world bosses? Unless the mount drops 1 for everyone in the raid, then the World Boss mounts are going to be 1 per kill like all other mob-dropped mounts. Inviting lonely hunter will reduce the chance that the guild is going to have the mount to themselves.
It seems like there are a lot of people who didn't notice that it is for Raid Finder, not for normal raids (at least according to the article sections) It would however be nice if they still let you have the option to pass, perhaps using like a toggle button before the boss so that if you don't need something you could pass... Of course this would lead to people all passing so that one person could gear up, but they could make it so you may only pass once every so many bosses or something.

We will see what happens, I look forward to seeing this progress =)
I also worry about the waste of a roll on people who do not need the gear from having either equivalent gear on that bosses loot table or better gear. If I am doing LFR with a friend or for fun i would like everyone to have to "fight" for a chance to roll with one less person. It would be a shame to give the chance to roll to someone who will just have to vendor it (if said person does not have the enchanting profession). Perhaps a window to roll on gear can pop up before the game decides who gets to roll?
I would recommend NOT taking away valor pieces. Perhaps make them slightly under raidfinder items. The more choices we have in gear makes the game more engrossing. It also gives a bit of a fall back to having a run of bad rolls. It certainly doesn't fit into the killing the dragon and looting the loot cliche but perhaps if it becomes more of a factional reward system. -King Wrynn says thanks! Have a go through the treasure room.

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