Dev Watercooler – MoP Looting Explained

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We have one other new system that will use part of the personal loot model. This is what we're calling the bonus roll.

Once upon a time, raiders had to invest a lot of time and effort every week preparing for a raid. This felt kind of cool in the abstract because it built anticipation, rewarded players who prepared for raid night, and otherwise just added a little more ceremony to the act of entering the dragon’s lair to seek glory and treasure. The reality is that you spent your time killing mobs to farm flask materials or gathering Whipper Root Tubers. The reality didn’t match the fantasy and we eventually greatly minimized the need to farm consumables altogether. Of course, that led to another problem, as raiders would log on for raid nights, finish, and then have nothing to do the rest of the week. The bonus roll is intended to give those players something to do that is hopefully more enjoyable than grinding elementals or Blasted Lands boars. We want to see players out in the world doing stuff, and we want that stuff to be a little more interesting (if not downright fun) than farming mats.

The way it works is like this: We have two major Pandaren factions, the Elders and the Craftsmen. Completing daily quests and scenarios for each group earns you one of two currencies. The Craftsmen tokens are spent mostly on cosmetic items. The Elder tokens are spent mostly on power items. The intent here is to let players who want some optional content to be able to devote time to both Craftsmen and Elders, while more min-max focused players or players who don’t want such a time commitment can stick to Elders. The Elder tokens can be used to purchase head enchants, some nice purple items, and the kind of gear you’ve come to expect from factions. However, they also sell an item called a Charm of Good Fortune. Imagine you can complete a quest once a week to buy one Charm for 25 Elder Tokens. You also might be able to save up a few charms, but you won’t be able to hoard them until the next tier of content.

If you have one or more Charms of Good Fortune, then whenever you kill a raid boss (in Raid Finder, normal or heroic) then a new UI window will pop up asking if you want to spend your Charm on a bonus roll. If you click yes, then you’ll instantly get another shot at that boss’s loot table! You will always win something from the bonus roll, such as a pile of gold, gems, or flasks. However, you also have a small (but not miniscule) chance of receiving a piece of epic loot. As with the personal loot system, the item will always be something designed for your current spec. Also, just as with personal loot, the game doesn’t analyze if you already have the item, if the item would be an upgrade for you, or if you prefer axes to swords or anything like that.



What ever happened to this part of the system?

This was the only thing for regular (non lfr) raiders to be excited about in Panda loot and I haven't seen any evidence of its implementation in the beta.
Any info would be appreciated, thanks!
So, let me get this straight your forcing us to take gear whether we want it or not. We can't trade the gear to someone who needs it more than us. If we already have that piece too bad, we might still need it, even if the other player doesn't have it and needs it more. We also can't get off-spec loot.
One question: if we already have the gear and it's not tradable, then why did we get the gear? It makes no sense to me that we can get a piece of gear that we have and just have to to vendor or disenchant it.
07/31/2012 03:57 PMPosted by Místershadow
One question: if we already have the gear and it's not tradable, then why did we get the gear? It makes no sense to me that we can get a piece of gear that we have and just have to to vendor or disenchant it.

Which isn't far off the mark to how the current system works when a piece of useless gear drops for the raid, which can happen exceedingly often in 10man raids. I'm wondering if they have any system in place which will alleviate that, because Dragon Soul was terrible in giving gear that just got disenchanted again and again, meanwhile, shared look like rings and trinkets had a tendency to never drop.
We have one other new system that will use part of the personal loot model. This is what we're calling the bonus roll.

Once upon a time, raiders had to invest a lot of time and effort every week preparing for a raid. This felt kind of cool in the abstract because it built anticipation, rewarded players who prepared for raid night, and otherwise just added a little more ceremony to the act of entering the dragon’s lair to seek glory and treasure. The reality is that you spent your time killing mobs to farm flask materials or gathering Whipper Root Tubers. The reality didn’t match the fantasy and we eventually greatly minimized the need to farm consumables altogether. Of course, that led to another problem, as raiders would log on for raid nights, finish, and then have nothing to do the rest of the week. The bonus roll is intended to give those players something to do that is hopefully more enjoyable than grinding elementals or Blasted Lands boars. We want to see players out in the world doing stuff, and we want that stuff to be a little more interesting (if not downright fun) than farming mats.

The way it works is like this: We have two major Pandaren factions, the Elders and the Craftsmen. Completing daily quests and scenarios for each group earns you one of two currencies. The Craftsmen tokens are spent mostly on cosmetic items. The Elder tokens are spent mostly on power items. The intent here is to let players who want some optional content to be able to devote time to both Craftsmen and Elders, while more min-max focused players or players who don’t want such a time commitment can stick to Elders. The Elder tokens can be used to purchase head enchants, some nice purple items, and the kind of gear you’ve come to expect from factions. However, they also sell an item called a Charm of Good Fortune. Imagine you can complete a quest once a week to buy one Charm for 25 Elder Tokens. You also might be able to save up a few charms, but you won’t be able to hoard them until the next tier of content.

If you have one or more Charms of Good Fortune, then whenever you kill a raid boss (in Raid Finder, normal or heroic) then a new UI window will pop up asking if you want to spend your Charm on a bonus roll. If you click yes, then you’ll instantly get another shot at that boss’s loot table! You will always win something from the bonus roll, such as a pile of gold, gems, or flasks. However, you also have a small (but not miniscule) chance of receiving a piece of epic loot. As with the personal loot system, the item will always be something designed for your current spec. Also, just as with personal loot, the game doesn’t analyze if you already have the item, if the item would be an upgrade for you, or if you prefer axes to swords or anything like that.



What ever happened to this part of the system?

This was the only thing for regular (non lfr) raiders to be excited about in Panda loot and I haven't seen any evidence of its implementation in the beta.


The Elder Scrolls of Good Fortune are now implemented, in a way. They didn't go through with the Elders as a vendor, but there will be ways you can get Lesser Scrolls of Good Fortune, which turn into Elder Scrolls. Not fully implemented in yet, but you can get the quest. They just need to implement where the Lesser Scrolls drop.
Hm, some thoughts:

Isn't all gear hunter gear? This means that hunters should sometimes receive tanking or healing gear.

Also, you left out the step where the game computes that the drop chance for a certain item is much less likely for a certain character (say, 0.5% instead of 4%). I'm guessing that the roots of the new system have been present all along in this hidden form.
I thought head enchants was removed and yet in the blog it says head enchants will be purchasable?

Then there is the valor system, im fine with the change of how it works to upgrade existing gear, I am not a fan of how raiders will effectively have to farm nonraid related content which they also out gear in order to upgrade some of their old gear, that is unless VP wont work on normal raid gear and above. Raiders are the ones who are doing the PVE content that is the most sensitive to gear and poor loot luck can be a much larger problem for them then it is for someone running five mans and scenarios.

I dont like a model that tries to shove players into doing stuff they have already grinded past and are onto the things they would rather be doing.
Hello there, GC. If you're reading this, please, tell me you considered what I try to point in here.
First, with the new loot system in LFR, is there going to be a way to trade items I win with people I queued up with? It could go either way and I wouldn't feel such a harm. Helping a guild mate versus gearing people too quickly. I don't know how I feel about it, but that's something that I don't believe was covered in the Watercooler other than "you can't trade". Is that not detrimental to forming groups before attempting a RF? It might increase the raid's chance of success.
Second, with the spec specific loot system, aren't you worried people might queue as a secondary under geared spec to a have a chance at loot when they have an over geared main spec? For instance, let's say I raid as enhancement but I want to build a restoration gear. I could simply queue up as healer, even thought I have no healing gear, not even caster gear, just because I have a high item level in my agility gear. I know one should expect people to be better than that, but we're talking about, like you said, people that I will never see again. And if I get kicked, I could simply queue up again.
Thanks for the awesome information on the new loot system. Looking forward to MoP!
Any weighting for getting gear based on a player's ilevel?

Just thinking that somebody that has a i450 item and another has an i500 item. Is there any chance (please god) the i500 person have a reduced chance of winning a i475 item. They don't need it, other than for transmog, and they're just going to vendor it. Where the i450 person would actually have use for the item.

I just appreciate it when other players with much higher ilevel need on an item that would be a major boost for me, but a severe drop from what they have, and then tell me before they leave that they hope I have fun in my crappy gear and they're off to vendor the item I could use.

I can see this if I could run LFR once a day, but on a once a week run it feels like I've gone 1 vs 10 with a group of rogues.
I really don't see how competing against the entire raid for loot is an improvement.

Secondly, this statement was made:

"This is why it’s so important to us that the size of the group shouldn’t matter. We don’t want guilds to try to kill a world boss with the smallest number of players necessary in order to maximize loot per player. When everyone has their own chance at loot, why not make the group as large as you can? "

Group 1 with 100 people; chances of getting loot are 1%
Group 2 with 10 people; chance of getting loot is 10%

Size of the group does infact matter.
Just looks like to me that once you get the loot you want from LFR, you should stop using LFR.
As for myself with this new loot rules, I wont be using LFR in MoP. Sorry but don't trust things that go on behind the scenes.
08/01/2012 12:17 AMPosted by Deavande
Just looks like to me that once you get the loot you want from LFR, you should stop using LFR.


Er...not in favor of that. They can just stop rolling on things that aren't upgrades. I've seen too many LFR who wipe on Madness and have no idea why (ignored the Blistering Tentacles).

Also:
08/01/2012 12:17 AMPosted by Deavande
Sorry but don't trust things that go on behind the scenes.


This seems silly. Things could have been going on behind the scenes all along, and you would never know it. That's what people are saying when they say that the random drops don't seem random. Now that Blizzard is admitting to doing something else behind the scenes...now you don't trust it? That makes no sense.
Just looks like to me that once you get the loot you want from LFR, you should stop using LFR.
As for myself with this new loot rules, I wont be using LFR in MoP. Sorry but don't trust things that go on behind the scenes.

Valor.
Offspec loot for LFR. Why not just open the loot table up to whatever you queue as. So if you queued tank and heals then you could get loot from either spec. No one can really argue. The roll is for which player gets loot. It really doesn't matter what they are awarded. And if they need tank gear specifically they can always queue as just a tank to up their chances at getting tank gear.

Here's another thought that would provide crafters the opportunity to show off their skills and make the game a bit more realistic. How about having a piece of armor drop that you need to salvage...say you get a giant piece of mail like a token and then you could take that to a leather worker and craft whatever mail armor you needed with additional mats. Kind of like a mini-epic armor piece. You could make it so 20 X fires and 20 X waters mixed with potion X and some additional leather and some buckles makes Epic Int Spirit Mail or Leathers for example. Maybe and idea for next expansion or for a patch later in this one...
No more giving to friends or helping others....thats good, im tired of jerks helping out their friends or guild members in LFG. You have no business being in LFR if you have all heroic dragon soul gear. Finally things will be fair.
i actually like the sound of this.

it really gets me mad when an item that i actually need finally dropped in lfr, and then some BETTER GEARED !@#$%^-* rolled Need simply 'coz he can, and wins the loot, and then disenchanting it in front of everyone else that needed and proceeds to troll about it. >< ya, fun times.

and the idea of the Charm is indeed very interesting. if it works out as it should then i guess i won't feel like "i've spent all those efforts finishing a raid but left empty-handed" again... hopefully... at least i got some gold coins back :P

so yes, i will see how all these ideas turn out.
i actually like the sound of this.
it really gets me mad when an item that i actually need finally dropped in lfr, and then some BETTER GEARED !@#$%^-* rolled Need simply 'coz he can, and wins the loot, and then disenchanting it in front of everyone else that needed and proceeds to troll about it. >< ya, fun times.

and the idea of the Charm is indeed very interesting. if it works out as it should then i guess i won't feel like "i've spent all those efforts finishing a raid but left empty-handed" again... hopefully... at least i got some gold coins back :P

so yes, i will see how all these ideas turn out.


I especially hate it when they brag about it in raid chat and laugh about it.
I really don't see how competing against the entire raid for loot is an improvement.

Secondly, this statement was made:

"This is why it’s so important to us that the size of the group shouldn’t matter. We don’t want guilds to try to kill a world boss with the smallest number of players necessary in order to maximize loot per player. When everyone has their own chance at loot, why not make the group as large as you can? "

Group 1 with 100 people; chances of getting loot are 1%
Group 2 with 10 people; chance of getting loot is 10%

Size of the group does infact matter.


actually no, with the new world/RF loot rule

group with 1 people 10% chance
group with 100 people 10% chance(each person) as well

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