Lock Meta tank: complete info consolidation

Warlock
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Honestly, that would make the gear become exclusive to a single class (Dodge cloth) which is exactly what they want to avoid (Monks being able to use Resto Druid Leather helps fill that in a bit too), given past comments. Its not a bad thought, but I think it goes the opposite direction that they want, in that raids will have tons of this cloth Dodge gear that no one wants but a specific spec and class using a specific glyph. With the Spirit suggestion, that wouldn't be so much of an issue. Even though I hate everything they've tried to do to connect Spirit with Locks, other than this suggestion.


Spirit on cloth is already like that, if spirit did > dodge that would make it so priests arn't the only clothies wearing spirit.


You are right, I entirely overlooked that Priests are the only cloth using Spirit now. That really supports it being a decent suggestion then, to me. Now if only someone could deal with Spirit plate. Spirit gear in general. Spirit.
Taking this away is such a pity...

You don't make something this awesome and then take it away by making it require a glyph that completely nerfs you AND YET doesn't allow you to fulfill the role it's intended to.

It's a pity, it's a shame and it's a waste...

This is probably the change i've been more excited since i started playing wow

Aabout gear difference, don't bears use the same gear as cats?, even so, if you really need it, you could maybe turn spirit -> dodge??? it uses existing gear, makes us collect 2 sets AND we still feel warlocky

(Also, thanks for the green fire... oh, wait....)
Please blizz, throw us a bone!
I want lock tanks, it's a completely new and original niche (cloth wearing caster tanks) and it would feel awesome to tank without relying on dodging or shielding against attacks, as the attacks would be blocked by our powerful demonic abs...

warlock tanks UNITE!!1!
I have been playing WoW since Vanilla (this toon since WotLK), yet have posted less than 20 times.

I feel strong enough about this topic to speak up. MoP really does not excite me. I've held off signing up to the WoW promotion (commitment to playing for a year for the free mount / Diablo 3 / beta) because I honestly can't say I will stick around and continue to play WoW.

Before the fanboi's jump all over me, I am not trying to be negative. I have always supported this game since it's inception. Also - no, I don't pretend to speak for the entire WoW or lock community, but I do identify with a lot of people's sentiments identifying MoP as Kung Fu Panda combined with Pokemon.

The other day when I was reading about the potential to tank on my lock, I was excited! I haven't tanked since Vanilla WoW (on my Druid) and the idea of my lock doing this really got me going. I read up on the many threads about this, watched videos, and spoke for ages about this with people on Vent, in the game, etc. I even decided that I would commit for the year.

When I read GC's thread, it was severely dissapointing. Especially the way the example was used comparing us to Arms Warriors and Druids (as a multitude of people have already pointed out - swapping a glyph in the middle of a fight - huh?). The wind was taken out of my sails and I am back to figuring out what I will do regarding MoP.

Again, before the fanboi's speak up saying "well, if you were only going to stick around for MoP if they gave you a tanking spec, you are sticking around for the wrong reason", that is not my point.

The lock community often feels neglected by the Developers, and like many others I think the tanking spec would be a great thing. From what I have read (such as this excellent thread), watched, etc. it would not be too far off to allow this to happen in MoP.

Give it a chance Developers! When was the last time you saw so much positive feeback from the Warlock community?

And GC, it would help offset the stereotype that you only care about buffing mages... :)

This is probably the change i've been more excited since i started playing wow


I agree. I have also been playing since Classic WoW though I didn't start raiding till BC and this sentiment is how i feel. I hadn't been this excited about wow since the announcement of Wrath was coming out.

Aabout gear difference, don't bears use the same gear as cats?, even so, if you really need it, you could maybe turn spirit -> dodge??? it uses existing gear, makes us collect 2 sets AND we still feel warlocky


Currently your right, bears and cats share the same gear. With the introduction of the monk however there is a 2nd tank in leather and GC is saying he doesn't want cats and bears to share gear anymore.
I am in favor of tanking. I'm actually right now trying to figure out what happens if we equip/reforge to a type of mitigation we don't have. I mean, is there no benefit, or can i parry stuff with my demonic claws?
03/28/2012 08:39 AMPosted by Hamut
I am in favor of tanking. I'm actually right now trying to figure out what happens if we equip/reforge to a type of mitigation we don't have. I mean, is there no benefit, or can i parry stuff with my demonic claws?


There is no bonus in boosting a stat you do not posses. its not that you have 0 parry, its that you cannot parry at all.
I havent done much reading into Locks becoming tanks but imo if blizzard does indeed make locks tanks i think that sixflags got it right More Tanks= More Fun!

as in less frustration of not being able to do a new dung or raid because we dont have enough tanks or we cant find a tank :(
I am a Warlock of closing-in-on five years uninterrupted subscription.

I want to tank on my Lock. Data we've seen from the Beta has proven that, yes, a glyph can confer the entire toolkit and survivability needed to tank effectively.

When I saw videos of Warlocks tanking 5-player heroics and even Morchok, I'd never been as excited for my class. When I saw GC declare it won't be officially-supported, I'd never been as disappointed for my class.

Every (valid) argument opposed to Lock tanking can be addressed.

Itemization can be addressed by somehow making Spirit attractive to tanking locks, such as perhaps a Spirit-->Avoidance/Mitgation conversion. This not only makes DPS locks and Tank locks itemize differently, it puts a second class on the Spirit Cloth table, providing greater impetus to have Spirit Cloth available from bosses and not just vendors (Firelands era). Although, for some time now, Tank and DPS Druids have shared almost-identically-itemized Leather. But, considering that may change for MoP, I think the Spirit solution is the most elegant.

Toolkit really does already seem to be there. Loss of potential DPS is baked right into the glyph, also (and in any event, you could just add an additional DPS penalty beyond not receiving the damage bonus normally granted by Demo's mastery). Really not sure why GC cited those as issues.

It may take time and it may not be easy, but I think it'd be worth it.
I'm adding to this petition. we have had the armor and crit reduction needed for tanking for 2 expansions now, and even had a taunt in there back in wotlk. We were able to tank some back then with meta rather simply, not raid level, but I did a few heroics sometimes because we couldn't get a tank, and we only ever had problems on fights where we couldn't get him down before meta wore off.

with this glyph we are really nearly there, we just need avoidance. simply make spirit convert to dodge, with the wording being

"and your spirit causes you to phase more into the nether making, you harder to hit"

or something along those lines. It takes care of both the don't use dps gear and the priests are only ones to use spirit.

It woudl be a very new style fo tanking, with even diff tanking styles mixed in, you could sacrifice your VW for less damage, or keep it and have the CD of having him taunt him and shield up so you avoid a major attack, and so even if he dies you jsut avoided a major hit. Though it did jsut cost you the VW, so maybe it wasn't worth it, it makes it a fun style fo tanking, with thinking involved.

perhaps they could even make it a new spec(like fourth druid spec) and they could add stuff like "all threat generated by your demon is transfered to you" which would allow you to AoE tank easier if you have your felguard out(if you can still have him for this spec...) or if nto felguard then still you have VW AoE taunt and that owuld help. you could also reimplement the voidwalker shielding the user just for tanking specc, as kind of a minor CD, like the warrior shield block for example.

Plus you have soul link which means part of your damage is split with your pet, if you keep it, plus you can have double the dots that way, and benefit mroe from AoE heals(if they heal pets, not certain on that) which is a mechanic no other tank could even implement, which means it woudl be another unique flair.
i don't really feel the warlock class need to tank

Then again it only took 30% damage reduction in WOTLK to get me to tank heroics. Add in how excited I was when i saw the videos on youtube.

So i'm not going to cry if this doesn't happen but I'd be much more likely to buy Mists if it does.

perhaps they could even make it a new spec(like fourth druid spec) and they could add stuff like "all threat generated by your demon is transfered to you" which would allow you to AoE tank easier if you have your felguard out(if you can still have him for this spec...) or if nto felguard then still you have VW AoE taunt and that owuld help. you could also reimplement the voidwalker shielding the user just for tanking specc, as kind of a minor CD, like the warrior shield block for example.


AOE threat isn't really the issue its single target with CC'd mobs around i'd worry about nearly everything a meta tank has at present is aoe.

Plus you have soul link which means part of your damage is split with your pet, if you keep it, plus you can have double the dots that way, and benefit mroe from AoE heals(if they heal pets, not certain on that) which is a mechanic no other tank could even implement, which means it woudl be another unique flair.
I really wouldn't recommend soul link for a tank because along with the damage being shared with your pet so is the healing. in some ways that could mean you have a larger health pool but i believe the draw backs out weigh the benefits.

I honestly feel dark bargain would be a much better talent on that level when it comes to tanking. Personally i'd spec this way
http://www.wowhead.com/mists-of-pandaria-talent-calculator#olN
with dark regeneration and harvest life being situationaly interchangeable.

I still don't like any of the level 60 talents for tanking or dps.
03/28/2012 09:40 PMPosted by Tedodor
I really wouldn't recommend soul link for a tank because along with the damage being shared with your pet so is the healing. in some ways that could mean you have a larger health pool but i believe the draw backs out weigh the benefits.


Actually, the way it is set out is that you and your demon should be at roughly equal health, i.e. you effectively have an approximately 280k health pool with current stats and a voidlord.

My hypothetical tank spec:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-of-pandaria/feature/talent-calculator#VZ!022200


Actually, the way it is set out is that you and your demon should be at roughly equal health, i.e. you effectively have an approximately 280k health pool with current stats and a voidlord.

My hypothetical tank spec:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-of-pandaria/feature/talent-calculator#VZ!022200


I suppose things would be changed situationally
As a tank, I would personally be taking Sacrificial Pact over Dark Bargain for a tanking cd. The reason being is that if your and your demon have about 280k hp, using Pact will give you 420k for a damage shield every minute (assuming your demon has full hp). Dark Bargain on the other hand Seems like it might be a bit excessive for a tanking cd since no other tank would be able to survive the kind of hit that you would need that ability for, meaning Blizz would most likely never put one in without it being avoidable. For this reason the 1 minute cd would make Pact more attractive than Bargain IMO.

On a related note, I do hope that Blizzard gives us the ability to be a dedicated tank. To be honest, I hope that they go the direction of what they did with druids, and give us 4 specs. That would allow them to keep the glyph like GC was hoping to keep it, while giving us the ability to actually tank as just about every warlock that I know would love to be able to do
Thanks for compiling all the information. I certainly want this to happen.

If blizzard's goal of reimagining demo and destro for MoP is to pull more people to the class, adding another role check option would open the class to a wider range of people.

I'm all for lock tanking. It isn't like we don't off tank occasionally already. There are plenty of instances that locks were a good choice as off tank. Make it official, blizz. Please. Why get us use to dpsing only and then occasionally throw a fight at us to tank where we have no clue what to do. It is vehicle combat all over again. People want to play the class/spec they've chosen and not some gimped version of their class.

Blizz can't promise us no more fights where we are the off tank of choice, but they can give us the tools to do it right.
Is this where I /sign?

/signed.

Get on this, Blizz. We want it. Give it to us.
So here's the deal after going some digging.

DR in the new form is still scaling with Mastery, and the 500% threat mod still seems to be in place

Apply Aura - Mod Threat

Value: 500


http://www.wowdb.com/spells/114168-threatening-presence

The 600% to 400% armor nerf still puts us behind the other tanks on armor, but it's not buy alot. I'm talking 1 or 2% DR levels (with the exception of druids, who have a fairly hefty lead).

The bad news is it's a new form. While great for tanking, it's going to cause bearcatting issues.
On second thought, it is a pretty good idea. Accept we would need cloth tank, but I doubt they will. I would be completely fine with it, just please keep the DPS spec! I really love it!
03/29/2012 12:27 PMPosted by Sylvaron
OH MY GOD THEY WILL NOT CHANGE THEIR MINDS NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WHINE!!!!!!!


... We still have the threat modifier and all the aiblities and perma-meta, and scaling for damage reduction

Throw in haste/spirit ---> dodge/parry

ta-dah.

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