Maw of the Dragonlord vs Vagaries of Time

Paladin
Would the stats from H Vagaries of Time be better than the proc from N maw?
Depends on fight.
What do you think about N Vagaries vs Raid finder Maw ?

I guess its about the same thing.

I suppose its easy enough to switch even mid fight (now that i've spent the gold on enchants anyway)

Help me through the logic.
I guess its pretty clear that in a true single target without anyone else in the aoe cone you'd choose the Vagaries.

If you were spamming holy radiance would you get more throug put with
53 more intel , (gem and slot bonus less 7 deficit)
123 crit
135 haste
176 spell power

For the sake of argument, lets ignore the haste . (it is worth something, at least to me, because even if it doesn't add through put through an extra tick, it will allow me to perhaps get another emergency flash or light on someone who stepped in something or more planned emorgencies, a few split seconds quicker.... right? a tenth of a second wlll sometimes matter when people are on the edge of getting killed by the next blow)

I've forged part of the crit into mastery but it could have gone into spirit. For the sake of argument lets just look at it as crit, and swapping the weapons in and out I get about .7 % more crit. We cut that in half right ? (healing crits are only 150% of normal, right?) , so that portion is .35% more healing ?

The 53 intel difference with the pink gem, and the 176 sp is showing 224 more spell power, which can get a bit complicated with buffs but it moves me with just kings from 9624 to 9857 which is a 2.42% increase.

Add(for siplicity sake ignore the compound) the crit and the sp increases and you get about 2.8 % more through put per spell ignoring the maw proc

Pulling an arbitrary number out, I'll choose 15k hps during a typical full speed healign period. (its probably higher than that during those periods right?) 2.8% of 15k is 420 healing per second.

I've seen the that there is a 12% chance of proc per spell and lets say you're casting every two seconds. Using a 6197 proc heal number on my lfr maw ... thats 743 extra per case , and dividing by 2 if using one spell per two seconds that would be 376 per second WITH only one TARGET in the Cone! and you might be casting more than once per two seconds.

So, that would make it just barely better to use the vagaries with one other target in range but if you had 2 and certainly 3, 5 , 5, or 6 in the cone, I'd be doing far more healing with the maw. ... .. 5 tartetsin the cone would boost the total healing by maybe 12% ish

I know my numbers are very very rough, but

Damn, looks like i wasted a few thousand gold on a queens garnet and anothe k on power torrent on my not so price new possesion. Most fights the maw would be better....really only if struggling with a single target and ready to switch back should i use the time vagaries...

Am I on track with those numbers?
deleted stuff about haste...

it was going to reopen stuff better discussed elswher.

fwiw the Reg DS vagaris moves me from 19% to 20.08 percent haste..
for those 20 seconds of the minute where it isn't a cake walk keeping people up(or even necessary to heal at all in movment phases) the haste could all things being equal, cram in another spell cast now and then into the same window where healing is necessary ... one out of 40 or 50 time or somting thats all a bit of gamble, but can't be discounted entirely any more than a faction of 1% more spell power can be entirely discounted....its often a game of margins and healing only 99% of the damage coming in means sure death if it doesn't stop before a buffer is used up.
04/05/2012 11:50 AMPosted by Touchyone
Am I on track with those numbers?


You are completely off. Crit heals is 200%. You are living 3 patches behind.

15k hps is Firelands level. You can probably get away with it in DS since all these nerfs are rolling in.

But still, Maw > everything on stacked fights, which last time I check, is every single boss in DS besides Morchok and Hagarra.

The easiest way to loot at maw is to pretend the text on it is orange.
04/05/2012 02:33 PMPosted by Saih
Am I on track with those numbers?


You are completely off. Crit heals is 200%. You are living 3 patches behind.

15k hps is Firelands level. You can probably get away with it in DS since all these nerfs are rolling in.

But still, Maw > everything on stacked fights, which last time I check, is every single boss in DS besides Morchok and Hagarra.

The easiest way to loot at maw is to pretend the text on it is orange.


Thanks for the clafications.... so that crit adds another .35 of one percent, making the reg vagaries more like a 3.15% over the rf maw, and using 20 hps for full healind stages thats like a 630 hps per second advantage on a single target.

If my guestimates were right on the 12% proc rate and average # spell cast per second, that would still be a 376 per sec per target within the cone... It would take two and the tank to be a wash.

I know those numbers are very rough... but it helps me at least get order of magnitude differences in place.. maybe the maw is 475 per target per second... ,

maybe peak hps is more like 30k and its 900 per second more healng on the primary target with blood lust up in the raid and personal timers aflare.(critical moments are really the cusp factor because in order to handle the critical ones, almost by definition the standard damage should be fairly managable with 90% efficiency).

Seems like there is still a place for the Vagaries but only when a single target is going to need all you can to keep him up and there will be enough raid healing to keep the others up regardless of the extra aoe you cast and the higher efficiency.

More overall hps or hpm isn't really the end factor, the crucial thing to me seems to be was could you keep the tank up while getting full damage and (in a much more common non elite group that most of us who pug find ourselves in) whether you have the burst healign abilty to keep someone up who f's up and steps in something.
wut
maw can = 200-300k healing in one fight btw so if haste and little crit can do that i would be suprised btw i have both SHOCKER and maw way out heals H time mace dohicky.
The question isn't what is "better"... because 75% to 95% percent of the 10 man fights if you had to choose one or another, the numbers seem to promote the Maw

BUT, i think it is important to know when you might not use the Maw.

You can switch weapons between fights.

You an switch weapons during fights
_ (are there any cool downs at all on weapon switiching? I feel like there must be some... you couldn't use one weapon for one spell and a second weapon for another with a simple macro, could you? )

5 mans are another issue... (not that they are really relevant once you have a Maw)

Thinkgs like being up in the webs with a mele in a heroic FL spider fight is probably a good time to use the Vagaries , huh ?

Just trying to get my head around a bunch of things and

by showing how I was trying to figure it out, thats a good place for people to correct portions of my thinkining (great to be reminded about the crit being 200% for example)

How about mid fight weapon switiching ? Is that something I should get used to doing regularly in some patches ahead or in this case?
You can switch your weapons mid fight but once you equip Maw, the ICD will automatically trigger so it is not worth it (It's maybe even more than the ICD, I am not sure). The only way it could be worth it (if you really want to go through the trouble of weapon switching) is if the raid was to spread out for a long enough timeframe to make the weapon switch worthwile and then reequip Maw 15 seconds before the raid is stacked again. Imo it is not worth it to switch mid-fight but yes, Vagaries is probably better when running 5-mans or during certain fights in 10-man FL, and even then I am not sure.

However, I rock Maw all day everyday just to show it off :)
Tl;dr answer is vagaries for unstacked maw for stacked, there is weapon swapping allowed midfight also so I would take advantage of that (you lose like 1k mana when swapping so it's not a big deal). I would just use maw most of the time though, for fights like hagara and zon'ozz when you split vagaries are cooler because of spamming flash of light.
Edit: There is an internal cd on maw though so I would plan ahead of time to equip it before stacking phases.

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