Guide to Rath Strat AV's (Update Coming Soon)

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05/01/2012 05:45 PMPosted by Paetheas
LOL LOL LOL LOL!!!! Are you sure you are a military veteran? You must be a comm guy or paper pusher.


You must be a dental medic that thinks he is a four star general just judging from your responses in this post alone.

Also please show me where I said a battlefield can only have 1 choke point? I will wait for that quote


A choke point is the enemy force has to go through point X to get to point Y.


Took me 5 secs, your dental instructors must be pretty upset you didnt grasp battlefield mechanics in boot camp.


He's offered you proof if you want it, either accept the offer and confirm or you lose what little credibilty you have left. Balls in your court, fingers in ears narnarnar isnt a valid response for an adult.

Or just do a full 40 man turtle on the bridge. Traps on the bridge constant AoE to break stealths. None of these can be done in a pug. GL getting 40 people to listen. People will do what they want unless they are the miniority. Then they more than likely will play along.


While giving your enemy a 250 reinforcement headstart + both mines.

You might have the occasional premade that might do it for the "lulz" and will most likely lose unless they outgear the enemy by a lot, but even most premades aren't stupid enough to try that strat.

At least with the Horde equivalent choke, the most they'd concede is Galv. They have 4 towers on or behind the choke. Alliance only has 2 bunkers behind the choke, while conceding 2 bunkers, Bal and both mines.
[quote="47678012932"]I

4. We concede Balinda because defending her would spread our forces too thin. Meanwhile, we have our stealthies simultaneously hit IBGY and FWGY.

5. Our rezzers then spawn at FWGY and establish a choke at the wall. The majority of the other players then move to reinforce the choke.

6. Once the choke is decisively established. We send out teams to back cap objectives and leave at least two people to defend each objective.

7. We fight a battle of attrition at the wall. We make no further attempt to move ahead. We do not attempt to take out Drek.

Thoughts? Comments?


Point 4 is the real sticking point. You'll be reliant on either splitting up your forces, or else truly sending only stealth classes down to take IWB. Unless you have absolutely perfect timing the ressers from FWAS or FWGY will roll over your stealthies or force a recap before your reinforcements can get there.

Of course if you send more than just stealthies you run the risk of a strong premade wave overrunning SHGY and negating your gains, forcing a race or else the horde turtling their new GY while trying to force you to use too many guards to keep IBT and TP.

A strong Snowfall defense from Horde would also really take a big crap all over this strat because then they can spawn behind your lines.
You might have the occasional premade that might do it for the "lulz" and will most likely lose unless they outgear the enemy by a lot, but even most premades aren't stupid enough to try that strat.[/quote

Bgspecialist use this strat and win. Us in Rath Strat have used it for our base before also to win. It isn't dumb if you know how to take advantage of it. Before you say it doesn't work please make a premade and try. Only takes 5-10min to fill a 40man premade. You would really like that strat anyways. About 35-40min game and 600+ HK's

[quote="47680314306"]At least with the Horde equivalent choke, the most they'd concede is Galv. They have 4 towers on or behind the choke. Alliance only has 2 bunkers behind the choke, while conceding 2 bunkers, Bal and both mines


The bunkers are not that big of a deal in all honesty. You would have 1 in front of you which would be a 15 sec ride. Bal is not even 10 sec ride. You will be able to react fast enough. I personally would like the choke. Everything happens in front of you and not behind you.
You are putting to much thought into it. If you want to reverse the Rath strat 5 people go to IBGY. They ride straight there don't stop for anything. They cap it. 35 other people hide around bal or even in bal if you want. The reason we hide behind galv is because it allows us to come in from behind which allows no way out. If you are inside it will still work if you flood one side and loop around. Maybe a few people will get out. Anyways you AOE everyone to death.

Yes prob SHB and SHGY will be flipped. So send 25 people down south now to IBGY to defend it and hold choke. 10 people go retake SHB because GY can be recapped. After you take it start pushing north and retake everything else. Then as you kill people up north send people south. slowly start taking bunkers and galv while you push forward. This would only work against a pug. Against a rath strat it would be a stand still and you would have to do a different strat.

If you want a good counter to rath strat 10 people go SHGY wipe and 30 go stright to IBGY. Team that takes the GY is more than likely have the better advantage. Don't take FWGY and farm them there until they retreat into base. So might be good to try and ninja FWRH so can't release and run to another GY to res. The other 10 2-3 can cap it SFGY on the way down.

Or just do a full 40 man turtle on the bridge. Traps on the bridge constant AoE to break stealths. None of these can be done in a pug. GL getting 40 people to listen. People will do what they want unless they are the miniority. Then they more than likely will play along.


As far as over thinking it, guilty as charged. :) I totally agree with your assessment that getting a pug group to do any organized strategy is highly unlikely.

Now as far as having 30 of our guys go to IBGY, what's to keep all the Horde who were waiting to ambush us at Galv from simply strolling over and crushing us at the graveyard? At first glance, all Alliance has done is trade one killing floor for another. Although, throwing the 40 man defense at the bridge strategy at Rathamus could be interesting just to see what he has come up with to defeat it.

By doin what we do, ignore galv and cap the IBGY in force (5/10ppl) at the start and wipe the zerg at bal, forcing them to spawn back at FWGY- behind the locked choke at IBGY/TP gap. Trust me, against pugs the zerg to bal mentality is just as strong on horde side as the zerg to galv is on ally side. And if you can hold that GY long enough for the def force to get there from clean up at bal its your game to win. Galv can die at any time in the game, doesnt have to be at the start.

Against rathstrat there is no 'clear counter'. Holding shgy stops the choke from being locked and essentially resets the fight.- then it just comes down to a good ol fashioned slug fest and jockey for postion across the FoS.


Hmmm... both sides in a slugfest across FoS. That sounds more fun than being farmed.
Now as far as having 30 of our guys go to IBGY, what's to keep all the Horde who were waiting to ambush us at Galv from simply strolling over and crushing us at the graveyard? At first glance, all Alliance has done is trade one killing floor for another. Although, throwing the 40 man defense at the bridge strategy at Rathamus could be interesting just to see what he has come up with to defeat it


Nothing, it is going to be a slug fest. If you get the GY you are sitting better and you will defend SHGY and should take SFGY which gives you advantages. If you actually end up taking IBGY then it pretty much is GG for alliance if played right. Don't let Horde turtle in the base. If horde does defend IBGY then it is a slug fest in FoS with Alliance having advantage by SFGY. The way I see it though Galv should be yours if played right. 15 people in blow lust and have 20-25 hold out in front with all snares and single targeting people down. Most horde will be trying to get in to save Galv and not putting up a fight.
You aren't seriously saying the Iceblood choke and this SHgy "choke' are similar in effectiveness are you?
Considering the best place to set up a SHGy choke would be behind the gy itself, which already limits how effective it can be. Aside from losing SHB


finish reading thread before you comment. I have shown SHGY can be a choke very easy. I still don't know why people say you lose SHB. You think it would be that hard for 2-3 people to get it back? By that thought horde at IBGY choke would lose Galv every game because galv is infront of the choke.

Remember the SHGY is part of the choke. You have a narrow path that you can blocked which leads to the same path for the hill coming up from Bal. What makes the choke worth while or not is how you defend it. I mean a few rouges can ruin IBGY choke with warriors and druids. There are ways around it :) Until someone makes a premade and tries it cant say it is a bad choke.
inish reading thread before you comment. I have shown SHGY can be a choke very easy. I still don't know why people say you lose SHB. You think it would be that hard for 2-3 people to get it back? By that thought horde at IBGY choke would lose Galv every game because galv is infront of the choke.

My guess would be the distance. To save balinda, shb, and maintain the shgy choke, alliance have to overextend in several directions. Galv is fairly close to the IB choke, and defending IB tower and galv are much easier.
05/02/2012 09:32 AMPosted by Esclamayshun
My guess would be the distance. To save balinda, shb, and maintain the shgy choke, alliance have to overextend in several directions. Galv is fairly close to the IB choke, and defending IB tower and galv are much easier


You don't over extend. When alliance has all four of our towers it is one by one by one by one. It would be the same thing.

05/02/2012 09:30 AMPosted by Declawed
You are kidding right? Which path should I reinforce to hold this choke point? The best (most defensible) place (as I said before) to set a choke in that area is much closer to Icewing bunker- well behind the Gy, Bal, and Shbunker.


That is where you would set it but not where I would set it. That path is narrow at GY which gives you an advantage to have ele shamans and druids to knock them down and force them to go up the hill.

05/02/2012 09:30 AMPosted by Declawed
FYI the Iceblood choke isn't set at the gy. It would be set near Iceblood tower- close to the gy, and close to Galv for reinforce, if needed. This is also ideal placement because it is at the fork of the 2 paths, meaning you can stray some distance from the tower itself.


Ty do I know where it is. I have used it in my premades. Only problem I see against a premade they can hold you off getting to galv very easy while they kill him.

If you did bother to read declawed you would notice these were strats people can do agianst pugs not against another premade. SHGY choke can easily work. I already said against a premade don't do it and fall to the base. Being someone on forums a lot I think you would read the thread before jumping in
Because against a pug, it's not needed. Against a pug, you could just sit your entire forces I front of galv the whole match and simply wait and laugh as alliance pugs keep funneling in one at a time like lemmings until their resources are dry. Pugs by nature really are that dumb.


Yes, Alliance puggers seems to be a lemming-like lot. I don't know how many times I have seen them just funnel in toward certain death one or two at a time.

That's what makes all this strategizing ridiculous, don't ya think?

Premade versus premade? Doesn't happen with any kind of regularity for this discussion to be worth while.


Yet.

With more players using RealID, it will become more prevalent. I see signs of the change happening already.
05/02/2012 12:14 PMPosted by Helayne
Yes, Alliance puggers seems to be a lemming-like lot.

Except the alliance don't have #*##head Disney camera men chasing them to their doom.
Yes, Alliance puggers seems to be a lemming-like lot.

Except the alliance don't have #*##head Disney camera men chasing them to their doom.


Werenolan - To Alliance, "It's a premade"
Alliance PuG - "Shut up troll, now let's zerg IBT so I can get school of hard knocks"

15 minutes later once choke is setup
Werenolan - "Y U NO LISTEN?!?"
QQing commences while I sit there and dance in my red flannel and blue cape

Also taking people who want to cause a little havoc and make the AVs more interesting for Rath Strat Premades. We will be using the same public vent but different channels, to avoid any conflict and disruption to the leaders and their premades (vent wise). Follow the vent instructions on the 1st page and contact Krazylegz.

PS For NOLAN!
05/02/2012 09:45 AMPosted by Chéwnok
Only problem I see against a premade they can hold you off getting to galv very easy while they kill him.


It takes at least 5 people to kill galv in an effective time frame.

If a 30 man team can hold off a 35 man team with tower support and their GY 5 secs away, the 35 man team is simply much, much worse and would lose the BG despite any terrain advantages they had.
05/03/2012 09:37 PMPosted by Chosen
Except the alliance don't have #*##head Disney camera men chasing them to their doom.


LOL. Or a conveniently placed two by four.

Werenolan - To Alliance, "It's a premade"
Alliance PuG - "Shut up troll, now let's zerg IBT so I can get school of hard knocks"

15 minutes later once choke is setup
Werenolan - "Y U NO LISTEN?!?"
QQing commences while I sit there and dance in my red flannel and blue cape


Story of my life these last few months. :)

This system that you are abusing, was never designed to match premades together. There is another system that does that. Maybe you should all be petitioning Blizzard to ad AV and IoC into that system? But then, oh wait...none of you actually want to put forth the effort to really minimize maximize the strats to the point where it's at it's most efficient. Right down to class/spec, comp.

As a matter of fact, I would put money that the majority of players that run these things would rather not face a challenging premade on every fight. That could lead to a string of losses in a row, and *dur* that's no fun! Oh sure you cry "we want to face a challenge" but we both know you only want that challenge 1 out of every 10 times...amirite?


In the interest of space, I'm not going to quote your whole post. No disrespect meant, Thugwart.

You make some interesting points. I know most players just want their honor because the grind for equipment is horrible.

However, there are a lot of players who have maxxed out the honor gear and enjoy the larger battlegrounds. I'd love for AV, IoC, and WG to be added to the rated battleground system.

It would be the best solution for both sides. Players who want a more organized PvP in the large battlegrounds will get the challenge they crave on the "game board" they desire. Just like wargamers enjoy their favorite maps. Meanwhile, the players who want to just log on for a fast bit of honor or just a bit of PvP, will get what they want.

There are only a few things I dislike about the current rated BGs. The first is that it requires a formation of a team. The second is dislike the rigid comps required in rbgs. I much rather they be more like the LFRs where players queue up when they want and the slots be filled by role. However, that is a discussion outside the scope of this thread.

Now, I cannot speak for the leaders. I really don't know them nor would I presume to speak on their behalf if I did. I just know for myself, I'd like to go pre-made versus pre-made in AV, WG, or IoC, even if it means I'd likely lose.

Why? Because I like the large battlegrounds but hate the auto-pilot PvP that occurs there. I do not need the honor anymore so I am ready to fight not grind.

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