Guide to Rath Strat AV's (Update Coming Soon)

Battlegrounds
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05/08/2012 09:21 AMPosted by Soularpower
mo, the real key counter would be recognizing the Rath premade while in the tunnel. That alone would hopefully wake up enough Alliance players to change their baseline strat. Then, it's about someone taking the lead and coordinating stuff. Regardless of what tactics an Alliance pug uses, the limited ability of /bg communication to react and coordinate defensive responses.


I agree with this and have started checking the opposition for names. I have also noticed players are starting to watch across the field to see how many Horde are running. Players are starting to watch for the ambush and the ensuing turtle.

Remember you don't defeat something that is heavily defended by throwing more offense at it. You may be able to take some towers with this and we have seen something like this before. What happens we end up turtleing in the base. You will get 2-3 towers down, but now you have to get in the base with 40 people sitting in it. Makes a 2-3 hour game. To beat a defensive group you yourself want to be defensive or do a play by play. Take one thing at a time staying together.


It does seem to be an Alliance trait to throw their forces against the best defended node/tower. I have lost count of the number of ABs I have lost because everyone spends all their time trying to take the place being defended by 8 Horde while ignoring the undefended node. LOL

And then you wake up from "la la" land, after you concede that that the mentality of your average pugger is that of "get the bg over with as soon as possible, get as much honor as possible, reque again..."

it's not;

"Oh sweet a premade, let's challenge ourselves!"

This is true with both factions.

Now try to organize a player base with that kind of mentality versus the common mentality of your average premade player which is;

"Oh sweet, I'm in a premade! I better listen to whatever they tell me to do, because I'm here to have some good time kill horde/alliance!"

You don't get afk bots, honor farmers in premades. you get a solid group with balanced classes who want to be there to listen and have fun.


*nods*

What has happened is unrated battlegrounds have become rote, like the daily quests grinds. Many players aren't in AV to PVP. They are there just for a quick honor payoff.

Some players (like me) have reached their goal and no longer need honor for gear. Now we want to actually PVP. However, for various reasons, rated battlegrounds are not an option. That leaves the unrated battlegrounds.

05/08/2012 10:00 AMPosted by Thugwart
sigh...it amazes me how much you guys live in fairy tale land...


Personally, I believe Blizzard released a genie of the bottle when they started allowing RealID groups. They did not foresee the PvP implications. They certainly didn't expect multiple RealID groups to coordinate so they could get into the same battleground.

So to my mind, it's a case of having to adapt to the new environment.

I have no expectation at this point a whole group of AV puggers are going to start working in a coordinated fashion. Heaven knows, I have spent enough time typing instructions in bg chat only to see them ignored to blunt my earlier enthusiasm.

However, what I do expect is an influx of small pre-made groups amongst the typical Alliance pug groups.
Boroth led us to an awesome win last night in AV against another premade. Hour long match and the alliance gave up at the end. Great leading by him and Blackhat!
Rath Strat still going strong as usual. Kickin butt and takin names :O
Is the vent down?
06/01/2012 07:36 PMPosted by Stakoman
Is the vent down?


Yeah it was a few times. Some D-bagger was DDosing it again i think.
Hm... if we know that Horde is going scorched earth, then Alliance has to intercept the horde prior to pulling Galvangar, surrounding them so that the ranged classes cannot kite, with a priest (ideally) putting fear ward on everyone so a psychic scream doesn't kill the formation. Then we have to (obviously) kill Galvangar, and take each tower, one by one, leaving 20 people guarding the tower that is currently being capped, while the remaining people roam and form a backcap squad. Once all four towers have been destroyed, everyone goes into the keep and takes out Drek'Thar.

I love creating theoretical counter-strats.
Hm... if we know that Horde is going scorched earth, then Alliance has to intercept the horde prior to pulling Galvangar, surrounding them so that the ranged classes cannot kite, with a priest (ideally) putting fear ward on everyone so a psychic scream doesn't kill the formation. Then we have to (obviously) kill Galvangar, and take each tower, one by one, leaving 20 people guarding the tower that is currently being capped, while the remaining people roam and form a backcap squad. Once all four towers have been destroyed, everyone goes into the keep and takes out Drek'Thar.

I love creating theoretical counter-strats.


Still you run the risk of running into the main defense group of 20-30 ppl who either will be intentionally waiting for you at Dreks place or 90-95% of the entire horde group youre against having the frostwolf insignias and instantly warping back in front of drek and wiping you all there without you knowing what hit you.
Hm... if we know that Horde is going scorched earth, then Alliance has to intercept the horde prior to pulling Galvangar, surrounding them so that the ranged classes cannot kite, with a priest (ideally) putting fear ward on everyone so a psychic scream doesn't kill the formation. Then we have to (obviously) kill Galvangar, and take each tower, one by one, leaving 20 people guarding the tower that is currently being capped, while the remaining people roam and form a backcap squad. Once all four towers have been destroyed, everyone goes into the keep and takes out Drek'Thar.

I love creating theoretical counter-strats.


Wait... you know it's one single-target Fear Ward per priest, with a pretty long cooldown, right? Also, how exactly do you intercept prior to pulling Galv? I guess you could anticipate that it might be a Rath Strat run and check around the back and side of Galv's bunker. But the time it takes to do a decent job of that would lose you the zerg game, which is won or lost by 10 or 20 seconds quite often, in the event that you were not facing a Rath Strat team after all.
Hm... if we know that Horde is going scorched earth, then Alliance has to intercept the horde prior to pulling Galvangar, surrounding them so that the ranged classes cannot kite, with a priest (ideally) putting fear ward on everyone so a psychic scream doesn't kill the formation. Then we have to (obviously) kill Galvangar, and take each tower, one by one, leaving 20 people guarding the tower that is currently being capped, while the remaining people roam and form a backcap squad. Once all four towers have been destroyed, everyone goes into the keep and takes out Drek'Thar.

I love creating theoretical counter-strats.


Wait... you know it's one single-target Fear Ward per priest, with a pretty long cooldown, right? Also, how exactly do you intercept prior to pulling Galv? I guess you could anticipate that it might be a Rath Strat run and check around the back and side of Galv's bunker. But the time it takes to do a decent job of that would lose you the zerg game, which is won or lost by 10 or 20 seconds quite often, in the event that you were not facing a Rath Strat team after all.


Especially if horde side is class heavy on hunters and mages. Mages layin ring of frost and hunters layin down traps (with entrapment or without) you can greatly increase that time frame to slow them down.
Hm... if we know that Horde is going scorched earth, then Alliance has to intercept the horde prior to pulling Galvangar, surrounding them so that the ranged classes cannot kite, with a priest (ideally) putting fear ward on everyone so a psychic scream doesn't kill the formation. Then we have to (obviously) kill Galvangar, and take each tower, one by one, leaving 20 people guarding the tower that is currently being capped, while the remaining people roam and form a backcap squad. Once all four towers have been destroyed, everyone goes into the keep and takes out Drek'Thar.

I love creating theoretical counter-strats.


The problem is that the map is unbalanced. It always has been. I've played it extensively on both sides starting in BC before the reinforcement rule came around.
For a mindless mob of fools that run straight towards the end, it overwhelmingly favors alliance. For a balanced attack/defend (say 30/10 split of virtual bodies) it also favors alliance.
But if horde decides to defend and use the alliance chokepoints against them (rather than fruitlessly attempting to plow through them while multitask defending very indefensible towers/bunkers), it's a guaranteed victory for them. The only way around this strat is for a handful of stealthies to ninja stuff behind enemy lines -- and either get lucky enough that nobody notices; or force a disproportionate amount of hordies to leave the front lines wasting time running around. If horde isn't careful, this can lead to a lot of headaches, giving the alliance resers a way past the chokepoint by resing next to Drekk (as the easiest gy to ninja just happens to be the last one -- if 10+ people are smart enough to corpserun down there, they can cap the towers and hold the village on their own).
But again, this requires the horde team to not be paying close attention, have a slow response, and people intelligent enough to not just res where the game tells them to.
BUMP
Would a vent moderator whisper me in game please? There's been a banning mistake. Thank you!
sorry
But it was your fault. When I said we are going to hold choke while you solo Van and you failed to do so you let the team down and you let me down. The leadership trait was there. jjdidtiebuckle. It was all met. Are you sure people don't invite people because of jealously or is it attitude? I get reports from lots of other leaders about other peoples attitudes but I make my own judgement. Word of warning to people coming in. It is a lot better to just keep your opinions to yourself and try not to attack anyone. Not volunteering gets noticed also and talked about. Most leaders would rather everyone volunteer for positions rather than us telling who is doing what.

The "top player" argument is very old and you only see one side of it. I know you consider yourself a top player because of damage and KB's. That isnt what a good player is in PvP. You are very mistaken. I have people that can vouch on Chewnok I have done over 20 million damage and 40+ KB games on him. That is as enhance. Also all PvP gear. Does this mean I am automatically a top player? The person who CC's, volunteers to backcap, sits in the south full game, stays at choke constantly is a top player. In PvP the scoreboard doesn't mean anything. The person with the least amount of KB's and mid damage could be the MvP of the game. I don't remember the mages name (Not Atraxus or whatever). He was from Burning Legion when we had a few of them running with us daily. On a regular RATH STRAT game he was doing like 40mil damage and averaging near 100 KB's a game. Highest I saw him get was 123 out of our 350 hk's. Problem is he didn't want to listen to us and did what he want. Why should we invite him? I took some of the same players into my 10 and 15 man premades when I was selling BM achievements and farming them. Same thing all they care about is the scoreboard not the team playing. What you consider a top player we consider a poor player which more than likely is followed by a terrible attitude. I havn't lead that much at all in the past month because of the type of players we have been getting. A lot of selfish people going on. I'm a very laid back person never have yelled in vent or banned people from running with me. After talking with mods today it might start happening to fix the community.
Congratulations. This has single handedly pointed out one of the biggest issues in pvp today. How honor is gained. Glad this came, cause otherwise, mists probably wouldn't of changed the pvp system.
@Dize We aren't bringing you in because you:

1) Never stay at choke when we tel you to.

2) Are greedy, always at the push and in the GY at the end.

3) Boast about being top DPS (as a hunter) (IN A GY FARM)

4) Only care about yourself and your own goals (like 100KBs in a single game)

5) Had the audacity to suggest that our healing team focus YOU when the Alliance was giving us steady resistance.

We don't leave you out because we are jealous, we leave you out because you aren't a team player. If you don't listen to the leader and your name is brought up several times in a negative way, people and leaders especially take notice, and you are out.
Dize, since you brought this to the forums I will also comment about your problems as a pvp'er in premades.

#1 You dont pay attention to the leader unless directly prompted.
#2 You think you are the best player out there and have stated so numerous times. (which makes you look like a jerk)
#3 You feel you should receive special attention from the healers in these bg's because you do more dps. (See #2)
#4 You are extremely abrasive when you dont get things done the way you want.

I'm sure other people have said other things about your playing, but if you cant realize that you are acting this way, you wont be accepted in the games by the mahjority of our leaders.

I agree that some leaders have some work to do on the way they lead, however this community is about equality. We treat everyone the same unless they prove that they are either bad for the overall groups or good for them. You have proven to many that you are bad for them. Read your own comment. You sound extremely self centered and act as such.

I hope one day you learn to calm down and learn to play with groups better.

Until then, have a good one.
sorry
sorry

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