Guide to Rath Strat AV's (Update Coming Soon)

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My initial reply to Paetheas was going to be a negative retort and I am editing my response because I know this solves nothing.

I have tried to reason with him. I have tried to even compromise with him. I have told him the truth of what I know. This all was not good enough for him. I will not back down and truly tell a lie. I never have, never will.

I have come to realize long before I posted these threads and brought awareness of these premades that I would be targeted, attacked, berated, hated, trolled, anything anyone can do to refute, dismiss, disregard, discredit, and derail the true purpose of these threads. These are the individuals with whom I have to ignore and shoulder on with what I do.

I have also come to realize that this is beyond me. This is not about me. It is about community, it is about the players, the personalities behind them that breathe life to the characters they play. This is more than a name now and I have no power to change or stop what has been started. I never called it Rath Strat. It was dubbed so by others. It grew from the community. You want to refute that, speak to the thousands who have participated in it. That is what it came to be known as in my battlegroup.

To further argue about it benefits absolutely no one. Not you, not I, nor anyone reading this thread.
Last night I caught a Horde premade player emoting /spit on one of the unfortunate Alliance casualties when we were camping SPGY. The issue was called out in Vent and raid chat and stopped immediately. Hopefully other premades (from either faction) police themselves as well at least some of the time, and not just ignore their own members' behavior.


/nod

That might have been the night I was experiencing said conduct and do respect moderation of such. I usually call people out in HK Farm groups that feel like they should spam /emotes in an offending manner.

Also...

Paetheas, chill out.

Rathamus has been the first, from what I have observed, to utilize the Cross-Realm ID to form organized Preform raids to HK farm AV. If he was not the first to do so? Who gives a damn. You are carrying this 'give credit where its due' banner but what names do you have to present? Rathamus name is known for this strategy on both sides of factions, he has presented a history detailing origins of his strategy, and I have seen a large increase in AV premades via cross-realm invites that reference to Rath Strat.

Paetheas just sounds like your crying that you are not the original poster and this isn't named Paetheas Strat or whatever catchy term you can come up with.
Where is Thug? I read his post, and now it doesn't exist. Did he get banned or something? He certainly didn't delete his post (there would be a sign that told me) and now... he doesn't exist as the poster below me. I found his post to be somewhat... revealing and saddening. But also a victory to Rathamus, because... he also enjoyed farming people in IoC, but continued to decry Rathamus as a 'noob' farmer (or something like that). Hypocrisy much?

Also, what I meant about 'scorched earth' is how the strategy worked. The context I was thinking of was Napoleon's Grand Army in 1812 and the Battle of Stalingrad in WWII. It taught a very good lesson- never invade Russia during the winter. Scorched earth was used effectively for the defensive army that forced the offensive army to take extreme losses for bits of land and gain almost nothing for battles they did win (they would poison the wells, burn the farm lands, destroy the roads, etc.). But the thing that was confusing me was that the DEFENSIVE forces won, and not the offensive forces (in this cause, Alliance vs Rathamus, and Rathamus has been saying he has enjoyed a considerable amount of success utilizing this 'scorched earth', if it can be called that).

-Taliey,
BG Healer and Enthusiast
Where is Thug? I read his post, and now it doesn't exist. Did he get banned or something? He certainly didn't delete his post (there would be a sign that told me) and now... he doesn't exist as the poster below me. I found his post to be somewhat... revealing and saddening. But also a victory to Rathamus, because... he also enjoyed farming people in IoC, but continued to decry Rathamus as a 'noob' farmer (or something like that). Hypocrisy much?

Also, what I meant about 'scorched earth' is how the strategy worked. The context I was thinking of was Napoleon's Grand Army in 1812 and the Battle of Stalingrad in WWII. It taught a very good lesson- never invade Russia during the winter. Scorched earth was used effectively for the defensive army that forced the offensive army to take extreme losses for bits of land and gain almost nothing for battles they did win (they would poison the wells, burn the farm lands, destroy the roads, etc.). But the thing that was confusing me was that the DEFENSIVE forces won, and not the offensive forces (in this cause, Alliance vs Rathamus, and Rathamus has been saying he has enjoyed a considerable amount of success utilizing this 'scorched earth', if it can be called that).

-Taliey,
BG Healer and Enthusiast


That's not really what Thug said. It was more like he agreed that both groups were HK farms, but while the alliance group was upfront about what they were doing, Rath tried to play his group off in a more noble way (bringing PvP back to AV, creating a community, blah, blah). At least that's what I gathered from it.

I think Rath got off on the wrong foot with the PvP community by his early threads regarding these premades being full of screenshots and chest thumping, followed by Rath himself showing up just to toss in "collects your tears" retorts. Oh, and let's not forgot creating a thread under an alt to gloat about beating a QQ premade as well.

Personally, I don't care if he does these premades. I don't even care if he plays himself off as some WoW hero by doing them, but when he puts himself out there, like he does, he should be able to take the heat. Scorched Earth, Rath Strat, all the same. Maybe some people just don't like seeing him take credit for creating a strategy that's been in play since resources were added to AV.
04/26/2012 01:02 AMPosted by Jadei
Personally, I don't care if he does these premades. I don't even care if he plays himself off as some WoW hero by doing them, but when he puts himself out there, like he does, he should be able to take the heat. Scorched Earth, Rath Strat, all the same. Maybe some people just don't like seeing him take credit for creating a strategy that's been in play since resources were added to AV.


Having been on both ends of this (having participated in one of Rath's 'Scorched Earth' premade groups on my sole horde 85 toon, as well as ran into them on my 2 Alliance 85s), you got to give him credit for organising them in the first place.

But as for the strat, I usually just refer to the premade as "Rath's Scorched Earth premades" regardless if the strat is varied or not, the strat belongs to the original name coined by the Stormstrike Horde PUGs (which was started by those from the Mal'ganis server) in BC, which spread to many many other battlegroups not too soon after.
04/26/2012 02:40 AMPosted by Berewakk
Personally, I don't care if he does these premades. I don't even care if he plays himself off as some WoW hero by doing them, but when he puts himself out there, like he does, he should be able to take the heat. Scorched Earth, Rath Strat, all the same. Maybe some people just don't like seeing him take credit for creating a strategy that's been in play since resources were added to AV.


Having been on both ends of this (having participated in one of Rath's 'Scorched Earth' premade groups on my sole horde 85 toon, as well as ran into them on my 2 Alliance 85s), you got to give him credit for organising them in the first place.

But as for the strat, I usually just refer to the premade as "Rath's Scorched Earth premades" regardless if the strat is varied or not, the strat belongs to the original name coined by the Stormstrike Horde PUGs (which was started by those from the Mal'ganis server) in BC, which spread to many many other battlegroups not too soon after.


I have no problem giving Rath credit for organizing these premades. That's not an easy thing to do considering he has to work around Blizzard's 5 man grouping limits to do it. I also give him credit for opening up a public vent for anyone to use.

I've only faced one of these premades once and it wasn't that bad. With the exception of a hand full of players, we turtled Vann, stood in the doorway and cast Mind Sear (fun fun) while several players got the Loyal Defender achievement.

I just don't see him as some pillar of the PvP community for creating premades to farm PuGs while claiming it's some noble cause. They're farming alliance pugs in a premade. I see nothing special or noble about that. It's hard to respect someone who openly admits he does these to deny alliance of honor as well as humiliate/punish them. If he doesn't like the way AV plays out, blame map design, not the faction that, just like he's doing in his scorched earth premades, is playing the map the way it best serves them a win.
Where is Thug? I read his post, and now it doesn't exist. Did he get banned or something? He certainly didn't delete his post (there would be a sign that told me) and now... he doesn't exist as the poster below me. I found his post to be somewhat... revealing and saddening. But also a victory to Rathamus, because... he also enjoyed farming people in IoC, but continued to decry Rathamus as a 'noob' farmer (or something like that). Hypocrisy much?

Also, what I meant about 'scorched earth' is how the strategy worked. The context I was thinking of was Napoleon's Grand Army in 1812 and the Battle of Stalingrad in WWII. It taught a very good lesson- never invade Russia during the winter. Scorched earth was used effectively for the defensive army that forced the offensive army to take extreme losses for bits of land and gain almost nothing for battles they did win (they would poison the wells, burn the farm lands, destroy the roads, etc.). But the thing that was confusing me was that the DEFENSIVE forces won, and not the offensive forces (in this cause, Alliance vs Rathamus, and Rathamus has been saying he has enjoyed a considerable amount of success utilizing this 'scorched earth', if it can be called that).

-Taliey,
BG Healer and Enthusiast


It's rather simple. Due to horde graveyards and resources, Horde would defend Galv and Iceblood chokepoint (best chokepoint in the game) They would wipe alliance on galv and force them back to their cave, while also wiping those who tried to run through. Alliance were unable to take any resources at all due to the position of the iceblood chokepoint. They could readily reinforcement from there and never give the alliance a chance. Since alliance resources are all over the place, and their graveyards so open, this strategy doesn't work for them. Horde can hold galv and IB chokepoint for an eternity if they wanted, it's too easy to reinforce.
"The political machine triumphs because it is a united minority acting against a divided majority." (Will Durant) ---The secret of success of Rath strat / Queueq / Bgspecialists / Flaxxen / Freehonorpremades etc. over pugs is that premades are organised and directed by the raid leader over vent. Pugs are a disorganised, leaderless rabble. ---

Thus a well-organised premade will destroy a loosely-organised premade. ---

A well-organised premade assigns tasks to groups and does not ask for volunteers. ---

A well-organised premade would quickly identify whether they are facing another premade and would ensure that they have a spy in that premade's vent channel. ---

A well-organised premade would troll the other premade's vent with !@#$ recordings during the game at maximum volume. ---

A well-organised premade would train their players by means of wargames. They would hold a Leaders vs Members wargame where one side follows a certain strat, so that the opposing side learns how to dynamically counter and overcome. Offer free vent subs to the winning team. ---

A well-organised premade would recruit (or turn) a leader from the opposing faction's premade.

So how much time, money and effort are we willing to invest in a silly video game to get our premade this well-organised?
"The political machine triumphs because it is a united minority acting against a divided majority." (Will Durant) ---The secret of success of Rath strat / Queueq / Bgspecialists / Flaxxen / Freehonorpremades etc. over pugs is that premades are organised and directed by the raid leader over vent. Pugs are a disorganised, leaderless rabble. ---

Thus a well-organised premade will destroy a loosely-organised premade. ---


This part is true.

A well-organised premade assigns tasks to groups and does not ask for volunteers. ---


Completely false. At least running with the Rath groups. Matter of fact there are usually folks calling out the roles needed most of the time.

A well-organised premade would quickly identify whether they are facing another premade and would ensure that they have a spy in that premade's vent channel. ---

A well-organised premade would troll the other premade's vent with !@#$ recordings during the game at maximum volume. ---


Unlike a few alliance premades, Rath groups don't do this. They can win just fine against pug and premade alike w/o needing to use BS 'tactics' such as that.

A well-organised premade would train their players by means of wargames. They would hold a Leaders vs Members wargame where one side follows a certain strat, so that the opposing side learns how to dynamically counter and overcome. Offer free vent subs to the winning team. ---


The point of these premades are to also allow players to come and go at their leisure, eliminating the need to practice or train or anything of the like. Not even gear grinding is needed.

A well-organised premade would recruit (or turn) a leader from the opposing faction's premade.


As was stated before, this isn't really needed. We've had plenty of alliance come over to join us, and we've played with alliance members in vent having fun with us as well.

So how much time, money and effort are we willing to invest in a silly video game to get our premade this well-organised?


You put too much effort into all of this when most if not all isn't needed to run a successful premade and have fun doing it.
04/26/2012 05:03 AMPosted by Esclamayshun
It's rather simple. Due to horde graveyards and resources, Horde would defend Galv and Iceblood chokepoint (best chokepoint in the game) They would wipe alliance on galv and force them back to their cave, while also wiping those who tried to run through. Alliance were unable to take any resources at all due to the position of the iceblood chokepoint. They could readily reinforcement from there and never give the alliance a chance. Since alliance resources are all over the place, and their graveyards so open, this strategy doesn't work for them. Horde can hold galv and IB chokepoint for an eternity if they wanted, it's too easy to reinforce


Most of this is false. Might want to do some research. Defend Galv is correct. The choke is 100% wrong and isn't the best choke in game. Best choke in game is the Bridge going. If you do not see how then I can not help you. 40 people can hold that bridge giving up Bal and two towers and win very easy. My brother is on Darkspear alliance and he has done this several times back in WotLK in premades.

Alliance can actually do this same strat. Hide up the hill from Bal or to the side of bal. Have people rush up take IBGY. Bam exact same thing will happe. A choke isn't on dimensional. It doesn't work for only one team. Also Pae if you get Google chrome with an addon you can see whose alts it is so you don't look silly. Isn't Rath or someone who post on these at all.

Check it out your alt toon is pandorah or was the name of the toon you are on now.
04/26/2012 06:20 AMPosted by Thugwart
Some people didn't like the blatant truth, so they deleted my post. (I fully expect that to happen to all my posts in this thread from now on...)


You mean, people like the ones who work at Blizzard? Last time I checked, the most any poster can do is report a post. They don't have the power to delete. You may wish to reflect upon that fact.

So Rath needs to create some alliance side "raths" and play with himself. Would be curious if they play on the same vent, in the same channel?


Actually, that looks like what's going to happen. Not sure how the channel will be handled.

04/26/2012 06:20 AMPosted by Thugwart
Oh yeah, I also spent some time laughing at that warlock...who's so clever she doesn't know enough to move away from the battle rezzer to find another graveyard that's not being farmed, to rez at.


Glad I amused you.

Finding another graveyard to rezz at only works if there is another graveyard available. ;-)

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