Guide to Rath Strat AV's (Update Coming Soon)

Battlegrounds
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i know i typed a 7 paragraph tactic on how to defeat the rath strat and it got deleted.
It seems that this thread, just like several before, has turned in to the off topic, foot stomping, chest thumping, mud slinging, locker room BS that always happens.

Rathamus posted the beginning of a "guide". A guide to help everyone of both factions, yes BOTH factions, learn that they have a simple, but very rarely found, thing called "Options".

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op·tion
   [op-shuhn]

noun
1.
the power or right of choosing.
2.
something that may be or is chosen; choice.
3.
the act of choosing.
4.
an item of equipment or a feature that may be chosen as an addition to or replacement for standard equipment and features: a car with a long list of extra-cost options; a telephoto lens option for a camera.
5.
stock option.
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Yes, YOU get to choose!

No where does Rathamus say YOU have to do it this way. He is just giving YOU the choice.

He is putting it out there for Everyone to see, explaing how it is done. So it is not some secret covert strat that only Rathamus and his friends can use. He is trying to let Everyone see how it is done, learn it, try it, revise it, bend fold and mutilate it to work for you. He is giving you the option, the choice, to do what YOU want.

IF YOU like the way the BG's are played, then choose to do nothing, but if you want a change, then choose something different.

Rathamus is just giving you an option. Personally, I see nothing wrong with that.

I don't care what it is named, where it came from, who claims it and who doesn't claim it. It is there and for me it is an "option" I enjoy.
Clearly you need to go back to school to learn some reading comprehension. I'm fine with you being ignorant but i do have a problem with you trying to spread that ignorance to the rest of our community.

I did not come up with the Scorched Earth strat that Rath so vehemently tries to claim as his own. It was created by horde on stormstrike alliance so many years ago, it has become quite common knowledge to anyone that played WoW in BC.

Seeing how you have nothing to contribute to the debate at hand other than some name calling, i am going to just assume you are a troll or an alt of Rath's. By all means, go look up the 'Scorched Earth' strat, then come back and join in on the conversation. You will be better equipped to handle the truth.


Don't have to do any research concerning what Horde did on Stormstrike server those years ago. I actually was amused earlier about your referencing to copyright and trying to make that applicable to this situation. You give plenty reason for people to respond rudely with an atmosphere of superiority around them given the only thing you can state is someone else did it first.

For instance you say I should 'learn some reading comprehension' and then go on to say that 'Scorched Earth strat that Rath so vehemently tries to claim as his own.' I need to see you quote where Rath claims that strategy as his own. Given what description you have given of Scorched Earth and the differences with that of Rath Strategy it makes that statement null.

Also to continue your point of my reading comprehension your inability to understand and take in Rath's initial response:

That is a distinct possibility and something that has been brought up a number of times. However, at the time I had neither heard of that strategy, nor saw it in practice at any time within my realm OR within the Reckoning Battlegroup (when the realms were consolidated into such).


...dives me more concern about your education.

I can go on to give several examples of patent disputes and infringement battles due to two different parties unbeknownst of each other creating products, ideas, and similar designs and only one initially getting credit. However, in most cases the courts will rule in the favor of both parties allowing them both patent rights.

Continue flailing if you choose - it is for the amusement of everyone.
04/26/2012 11:23 AMPosted by Paetheas
Rathamus created this strategy after careful analysis of the battleground terrain features, tower and bunker placement, graveyard locations, residing NPC's, and starting cave points was made and a strategy was born that is still followed today.


That was easy. Too bad you couldnt make it past the very first post in this thread or you would have read it yourself. Nice try, though.



For instance you say I should 'learn some reading comprehension' and then go on to say that 'Scorched Earth strat that Rath so vehemently tries to claim as his own.' I need to see you quote where Rath claims that strategy as his own. Given what description you have given of Scorched Earth and the differences with that of Rath Strategy it makes that statement null.

...

Continue flailing if you choose - it is for the amusement of everyone.


04/26/2012 11:23 AMPosted by Paetheas
Nice try, though.
Who ran scorched earth strat back in the day? I was on Mal'Ganis until the end of Wrath and I remember having a jolly good time doing Goon AV in Vanilla.
It's rather simple. Due to horde graveyards and resources, Horde would defend Galv and Iceblood chokepoint (best chokepoint in the game) They would wipe alliance on galv and force them back to their cave, while also wiping those who tried to run through. Alliance were unable to take any resources at all due to the position of the iceblood chokepoint. They could readily reinforcement from there and never give the alliance a chance. Since alliance resources are all over the place, and their graveyards so open, this strategy doesn't work for them. Horde can hold galv and IB chokepoint for an eternity if they wanted, it's too easy to reinforce


Most of this is false. Might want to do some research. Defend Galv is correct. The choke is 100% wrong and isn't the best choke in game. Best choke in game is the Bridge going. If you do not see how then I can not help you. 40 people can hold that bridge giving up Bal and two towers and win very easy. My brother is on Darkspear alliance and he has done this several times back in WotLK in premades.

Alliance can actually do this same strat. Hide up the hill from Bal or to the side of bal. Have people rush up take IBGY. Bam exact same thing will happe. A choke isn't on dimensional. It doesn't work for only one team. Also Pae if you get Google chrome with an addon you can see whose alts it is so you don't look silly. Isn't Rath or someone who post on these at all.

Check it out your alt toon is pandorah or was the name of the toon you are on now.

No. Just no. You're either trolling or playing a different Alterac Valley than me. Either way, you don't seem to grasp how Alterac Valley works. I've tried to remain constructive with my posting, but others make it near impossible.

It's you that need to do research. Scorched earth is a very simple tactic that works exactly how I described it. It's simply using map design (all alliance resources are very close together) Horde simply wipes Alliance at Galv, IB Tower, IB choke, sending them back. They slowly move up the map taking SH bunker, IW Bunker, and killing Balinda. Gradually pushing alliance back to their keep. Where was I wrong?

Alliance cannot employ this strategy with any real success because it's just not possible due to graveyard, tower, and chokepoint placements. The map is far from mirrored. The Bridge is a very good chokepoint no doubt. But as stated before, you give up far too much ground to the Horde to utilize it. Horde can use Iceblood chokepoint to stop the alliance from doing anything offensively.
Maybe you didn't understand that part bu,t you didn't address any other part of the paragraph. You have to look at it from another perspective. The community already has spoken an said RBG are broken due to the whole fact it is PvE abuse. People with the heroic gear win. So many specs and classes are not wanted in RBG. RBG is a huge waste of time to find the right comp to get in RBG. I would have to redo my resto set and drop enhance. I would have to find the perfect 9 other people. Since it is competitive people take it more serious which adds extra nerd rage.


I cannot agree with you more, Chewnok. You touched on every reason I don't play RBG.

(Besides the fact the moment anyone hears I have a healer they want me to bring him instead of my warlock.)

04/26/2012 10:15 AMPosted by Serenittie
i know i typed a 7 paragraph tactic on how to defeat the rath strat and it got deleted.


I am sorry to have missed that post. Would you be willing to re-type it?
04/26/2012 11:23 AMPosted by Paetheas
It is the best choke in the game. It's GY is protected behind the choke, it has the support of 2 tower's full of archers, it's only 8 yards wide, and is right next to the horde general. The horde can protect both their general and the choke at the exact same time.


IBGY has 1 tower. You can isolate it when attacking choke so you have ZERO towers attacking. If you don't know how to do that might want to relook at it.
04/26/2012 11:23 AMPosted by Paetheas
If you think the bridge choke is the best in the game then i dont know what to tell you. If you think giving up a 250 resource advantage, giving the other team a 20% HP bonus, allowing them to hold both mines(for resource gain) and keeping your entire team locked into their own keep makes it better than the iceblood choke, you clearly dont understand battlefield tactics very well.


Trust me I think I know battlefield tactics a bit more than you. If you want RL proof I will send you my NAM's that I got for writing SoP's for my unit in Iraq. The bridge is the best choke. You have NPCs that will help push us back, archers from the bridge that cannot be ignored or isolated. With it a Tstorm or Typhoon can take out a lot of the people on it. That is a lot of people falling to their death. The bridge is so narrow that is a lot of AoE that can happen on a small spot. I dont think you understand tactics. People can sneak through IBGY choke, people cannot sneak by the bridge.

04/26/2012 11:23 AMPosted by Paetheas
You are wrong on this one for several key reasons. If the alliance wants to try and defend Balinda, they are going to lose SH bunker automatically. It's on the horde side of the map and a very long ride away from Balinda. There is no way for the alliance to protect both balinda and choke the horde from riding past into the other 3 bunkers(DB bunkers and Icewing). There are two ways past IW bunker and the area alliance have to choke is easily 10 times wider than the IB chokepoint. The IW GY is also located on the horde side of the choke making it non-viable as a choke(any dead ally are out of the fight b/c of no GY nearby)


So sounds like our chokes. People can sneak by any time and we have to have people run all the way back or have 5 people sit in the south to defend these nodes. You have to do the same thing. When we sat at IBGY choke we had four towers getting assulted. Galv is infront of us if we have to run and save him guess what, choke is open to ride by. Half the stuff you are saying happens to horde also. So don't say it wont work. We make it work.

04/26/2012 11:23 AMPosted by Paetheas
And this is where your lack of knowledge about battlefield tactics really shows. Alot of the chokepoints in AV ARE one sided. Just look at the Icewing chokepoint.


This is where i know what i'm talking about again. TRUST ME ANYONE can use a choke for any reason. Don't try and tell me I don't know. I got those warrants for you!

For holding the bridge game over false. We have won games where we lost 3 towers and Galv holding on our base and won. It isn't over. Like I said my brothers old premades use to do it all the time
Thanks for the "Welcome" Thug
and fyi I am not a fella, just saying

Anyway, all this chit chat about Scorched Earth and best choke point and who has the landscape advantage just seems like a lot of nit-picking excuses. Really old old beat a dead horse, excuses.

I can show you posts from 2008 that mimick the same exact things almost word for word.
http://woweuarchive.yg.com/thread.html?topicId=2341765091&sid=1

So again, you are not saying anything that has not already been said. Nothing even close to original. Sorry to burst the ego bubble ;/

I ran WSG and AV when they first came out, and I was lucky enough to get in a few scorched earth premades. (remember back when BG's were numbered and you were able to chose which one you wanted?) Back then AV was an Epic Battle you prepared for like a Raid. You went in ready for nothing less than 3-10 hours and if you got a good one, the battle could and did last 1-3 days.
It was true pvp, not the PVE Zerg that BG's turned in to. Also remember back then there were no guaranteed HK's like now. And you could get dishonor.

But that is all in the past. Due to Blizzard wanting to keep the majority of its base happy they basically "dumbed" down much of the older content. Which I can't fault them for, they are a business.
04/26/2012 12:37 PMPosted by Bry
cOUlD u DU mE a fe,vor adn take up hOOkED nO foniCs?


nope, this isn't a graded paper or something for work that needs to be spell checked and grammar checked. If it bugs you that much stop reading forums
04/26/2012 12:17 PMPosted by Esclamayshun
Alliance cannot employ this strategy with any real success because it's just not possible due to graveyard, tower, and chokepoint placements. The map is far from mirrored. The Bridge is a very good chokepoint no doubt. But as stated before, you give up far too much ground to the Horde to utilize it. Horde can use Iceblood chokepoint to stop the alliance from doing anything offensively.


It is 100% possible. People already said it is a great strat. You take IWGY... You wipe them at bal.... They get pushed back to horde base. You run up set up the choke right by the flag. No one gets by. It is very simple. It is just like us taking IWB Choke. Don't tell me it can't work, there is no reason why it wouldn't. If it is because people will "cap towers" guess what. People cap towers still on our strat and people have to go back and defend it.

You guys might want to look up definition of a choke anyway. IWB can be used for Alliance. It is the same as IBGY just a little longer. Still can work easy. Just because it isn't very skinny doens't mean it wont work. Alliance has 3 ways to get around our IWB choke. If you swap it horde has 1. Right straight through.

If you want to talk to me about tactics you might want to step back and look at if from both ways. I do it every time with everything. To tell me it wont work just means you don't think it is "OP". A choke is a choke, it is a defensive advantage. IWB and IBGY chokes can be used for the alliance.
You guys might want to look up definition of a choke anyway. IWB can be used for Alliance. It is the same as IBGY just a little longer.

Your definition of a "little longer" is baffling.

Travel time from Iceblood graveyard to Iceblood Chokepoint is about 10 seconds.

Travel time from Stormpike graveyard to Icewing bunker is about 40-50 seconds.
04/26/2012 01:23 PMPosted by Esclamayshun
Travel time from Stormpike graveyard to Icewing bunker is about 40-50 seconds


Why you hold the IWGY. The choke can stretch from the flag to the log. Isn't that long and easy to maintain. Remember most people will want to rush by not fight.
Wow Paltheas. Rath has stated numerous times that he probably didn't come up with the strategy, but you keep insisting that he did.

selective hearing - the quality of hearing only what they would like to hear.
If you lose whilst you have a 250-300+ reinforcement advantage at the bridge (from capping 2 Towers + Balinda), then you pretty much deserve to lose. The Bridge Choke works both ways, especially if Horde is pinning Alliance in their base at the Aid Station GY, Horde can easily take control of the bridge and very much block the exit point for Alliance (which at that point is too late for Alliance to do anything except maybe a Galv kill if they're lucky as their reinforcement counts ticks down from being farmed by Horde at the Bridge entrance)

IBGY and IWB Choke (which is a Horde choke since the GY is on the Horde end of the chokepoint) are the best chokes in the game, no question.

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