Blizz: Only Gameplay, orcs, and humans matter

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04/12/2012 07:21 PMPosted by Lulzwaffles
What? That has nothing to do with whats being discussed here.


see

"We feel that there's no reason for us to be helping Thrall."

"Understood. He doesn't feel too much like a world hero."

Dragon Soul ships. Alliance forced to help Thrall.


Or just blindly ignore it, you alliance are good at that.


That was used as an example to show there was a lack of Alliance participation in the world hero scheme. We took orders from the aspects but tell me who was piloting the whole Alliance campaign of things? If Varian was used as the sole world hero for the end content i think discussion would be quite different.
04/12/2012 07:21 PMPosted by Lulzwaffles
Or just blindly ignore it, you alliance are good at that.


And down and down we go, deeper and deeper.
Someone must have open the lore forum flood gate. It feels like there most ardent posters are here in general now.

I'm not saying his statements shouldn't be up for discussion. But I beg you not to start the discussion based on a false pretense.


It's not a false pretense, it's my interpretation of what he said, if you disagree with it that's fine, maybe he's not a graceful speaker, maybe he meant something else, maybe I'm just such a misanthrope that I didn't understand him.

But to me, it feels like only orcs and humans matter, that's all I took from it, and I'm tired.

I'm tired of caring.

I'm tired of hoping that 'the next story' is going to be better, that it'll make me happy, only to inevitable not just be disappointed, but to be -horrified- at how terrible the lore is, how ungraceful the writing is, and how it muddles things we used to understand.

I'm tired of hearing "Oh you'll be able to understand Varian and Garrosh." only for Varian to make no real appearance, and for Garrosh to order his air guard away.

I'm tired of being unable to understand when things happened because of how screwed up the timeline is.

I'm tired of the Forsaken being kitten-eating evil.

I'm tired of the Gnomes being laughing stocks.

I'm tired of questing through the southern barrens where people act like Honor's stand was some big deal when it didn't -exist- prior to cataclysm as anything other than an npcs-less ruined tower.

I'm tired of the Mag'har, touted by Thrall as true orcs, as being pure, uncorrupted, as being raised by Geyah to be -good-... act more bloodthirsty and dishonorable than -FEL ORCS-.

I'm tired of Malfurion and Cenarius chiding the Night Elves for fighting the Horde.

I'm tired of Tirion ignoring the Forsaken.

I'm tired of that shaman in front of Org giving a quest that makes -no- sense. To explain Why Garrosh is bad in a horribly hamhanded manner.

I'm tired of feeling stupid and evil when I play Horde, and ineffectual and weak when I play Alliance.

I'm tired of being LIED TO By Blizzard. When they say they'll explain things, like the Ebon Blade's future in Cata, or adding books to the capitals, or Stromgarde and Alterac in Cata (Galen was all? Seriously?). I can understand not having the resources to get to these things, or having to postpone them, but this lack of addressing? This quiet assumption that we should be happy with what we get or not notice? Not cool.

I'm tired of being told all of this is fine and what I feel doesn't matter, or that I'm a whiner.

I'm tired of feeling tired and disillusioned with the game.

So, regardless of whether I am or not, I'm not posting or playing anymore.

I don't enjoy the game, and whether the problem is me or not, it's all done with.

Goodbye and I hope everyone does whatever they think is best.


You're just tired of the game clearly... if you can possibly find fault with anything in the story lines, you're just all sorts of done... stop playing.. go find other pursuits and perhaps someday when you come back (and you will), you'll stop acting like a petulant child who isn't getting enough nap time.

You're just tired of the game clearly... if you can possibly find fault with anything in the story lines, you're just all sorts of done... stop playing.. go find other pursuits and perhaps someday when you come back (and you will), you'll stop acting like a petulant child who isn't getting enough nap time.


You heard it here first folks, if you can find a single fault with anything in the story, you have no business playing this game.
04/12/2012 07:29 PMPosted by Zerde
Someone must have open the lore forum flood gate. It feels like there most ardent posters are here in general now.


I usually only browse General. Far too many people too eager to yell "troll!" rather than have a discussion. [Edit: And then you have gems like post 165. /eyeroll]

But yeah, some of us are here for sure - we really enjoy the lore and this thread is about just that.
Behold, for I have come to you with Fifty Five Fallacies...

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rhetological-fallacies/


That was used as an example to show there was a lack of Alliance participation in the world hero scheme. We took orders from the aspects but tell me who was piloting the whole Alliance campaign of things? If Varian was used as the sole world hero for the end content i think discussion would be quite different.


and thats why I rebutted it?

Should I just call you osmium? You know, since you're so dense?

04/12/2012 07:27 PMPosted by Azaghal
And down and down we go, deeper and deeper.


This is such a stupid !@# post, it was born in the Mariana Trench, I'm going to make sure it dies down there.


Wow... Your taking things really personal aren't you? Look i also play Horde and i love both sides of the story. What i think OP is getting accross here is the lack of involvement of the races other than Humans and Orcs. In DS there was so many opportunities to get race figure heads involved from both factions. But no lets just go with Thrall and the aspects. Such a one dimensional plot. Please don't take it as an attack to the horde because its simply not.
04/12/2012 07:32 PMPosted by Mathaldel
So much butthurt.


You could be constructive, you know. It's sad that someone that cares about this huge story that so many people have put so much effort into and that those same creators truly love is mocked and trolled...

And people like you that get your jollies on mocking the people with real criticism get patted on the back.

Pathetic, that situation.
apparently its only possible to write alliance if its a blue horde that explains so much instead of trying to devolp the faction on its own merits we get to be a blue horde.

now dont get me wrong im fine if varian gets more involvment with the story that i am not complaining about what we need instead of a "warchief" is somone like anduin lothar if the plan is to make varian that then woo yay but i just dont see that happening
04/12/2012 07:24 PMPosted by Omacron
Similar to what I said about the Horde above, the Alliance formed an allegiance around human kingdoms. If you're suggesting they're thematically better served by a republic or democracy, Azeroth lore says otherwise.

If I might, Zarhym-

I don't think anyone who has a problem with the concept of the High King (full disclosure: I am one of those people) has a beef with the concept of monarchy itself, but the idea of one monarchy or, indeed, any one government ruling over the entirety of the Alliance. The Horde is one state with one leader. The Alliance is, well... an Alliance. There are many states which are, in theory, equal within the Alliance. The heads of state of these nations, be they monarchs, theocrats or elected officials, meet and create policy together. The concept of a "high king" goes against the manner in which the Alliance was founded and portrayed. And frankly, Ferlion does have a point, why WOULD citizens of independent states be okay with giving up their sovereignty to be ruled by a king halfway around the world?

I get why you guys are doing the "High King" stuff. The Alliance does need a central figure to rally around, and frankly, it's far easier to write a singular heroic figure than have our quests be taking the minutes of the Alliance's most recent meeting to organize international tax policy. But why does this central figure need to be a KING, with all of the autocratic power and, frankly, human-centric culture that entails? Why must the character be a king, when a Supreme Allied Commander serves the same role? There's precedent for it within the lore, and frankly, if it was good enough for Anduin Lothar, it should be good enough for Varian Wrynn.


It's not a full emperor's crown - it's just leader of Alliance military
Original Metzenese:
"...the pillars of the franchise are orcs and humans; it really is the Alliance and Horde by extension, and it really is those two groups beating the brains out of each other for an extended period of time. That’s always gotta be what Warcraft is about...

English Translation:
"...the original pillars of the franchise are the orcs and humans; those pillars have grown and now include the entire Alliance and Horde. At it's core, Warcraft always has to be about long-term conflict between these two growing factions"

Forum-ian Translation:
"...the pillars of the franchise are Thrall and Money, and it really is about Ghostcrawler, Zarhym, and me getting Rank 1 Gladiator titles every season by extension; it really is about buffing the classes we play and then beating the brains out of noobs for an extended period of time. That's always gotta be what Warcraft is about... me"


Exactly this.

I've come to the conclusion that people will say anything to support their position. Anything.
04/12/2012 07:34 PMPosted by Wolfieone
It's not a full emperor's crown - it's just leader of Alliance military


I think then that the problem is the term "High King". "High King", by definition, is not just a military leader.
04/12/2012 07:34 PMPosted by Bullcowsby
So much butthurt.


You could be constructive, you know. It's sad that someone that cares about this huge story that so many people have put so much effort into and that those same creators truly love is mocked and trolled...

And people like you that get your jollies on mocking the people with real criticism get patted on the back.

Pathetic, that situation.


I mostly said that in reaction to Skytotem's reaction to this thread on SoL.

http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23187
But yeah, some of us are here for sure - we really enjoy the lore and this thread is about just that.


Yeah I know. it is very rare for a thread in the general forum that is filled with people interested in the lore.

You know Blizz could probable have ended this whole debate long ago if they simply "spoiled" a part of the story where they plan on showing the Alliance fist pumping. Zarhym once said he wasnt going to spoil the story just to make us feel better, but you know maybe that is exactly what is needed to stop all these threads.

Heck they have already spoiled the ending of MoP, what is one more lore tidbit that could turn the perception and completely destroy any argument that they favor one faction or another.
I'm just here for the gnomes.

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