Survival PvE, for 4.3!

Hunter
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Hey, here's a question. I've read multiple times now in this thread that firing ES multiple times in a row will not clip the dot left from the initial hit. If this is the case, wouldn't it make the most sense to skip the AS altogether and just do triple ES? That way it would come off CD faster.

Just my two cents.

If you fire 3 ES consecutively, one of the ticks will clip. If you only fire 2 consecutively, you're fine.
'Clipping' and 'Stacking' are different issues. Explosive Shot doesn't Clip, but it also doesn't stack.

In short, when you refresh Explosive, 1 Tic from the prior application will carry over into the new application. Firing 2 shots back-to-back does take 1 tic off the first explosive, but it also adds 1 to the second. Firing 3 in sequence results in 1 tic of the second explosive being lost, since the third Explosive can only inherit 1 of the 2 remaining tics from the 2nd. That is why we use a 1GCD filler to break up the triple.

There are more in depth explanations elsewhere.
'Clipping' and 'Stacking' are different issues. Explosive Shot doesn't Clip, but it also doesn't stack.

In short, when you refresh Explosive, 1 Tic from the prior application will carry over into the new application. Firing 2 shots back-to-back does take 1 tic off the first explosive, but it also adds 1 to the second. Firing 3 in sequence results in 1 tic of the second explosive being lost, since the third Explosive can only inherit 1 of the 2 remaining tics from the 2nd. That is why we use a 1GCD filler to break up the triple.

There are more in depth explanations elsewhere.
So if I'm getting this right, I get an LnL proc and use two explosive shots back to back, the first two ticks of the first ExS should be done with by time the second shot gets to the mob. Therefore if i wanted max DPS from a LnL proc my shot priority would be something like ExS, ExS, AS, ExS?
So if I'm getting this right, I get an LnL proc and use two explosive shots back to back, the first two ticks of the first ExS should be done with by time the second shot gets to the mob. Therefore if i wanted max DPS from a LnL proc my shot priority would be something like ExS, ExS, AS, ExS?


Correct, Deceitful said it in her guide already:
Fire two consecutive Explosive Shots off the global cooldown, then depending on how much focus you have, resort to one of two options:
If over 60 focus, cast Arcane Shot then a third Explosive Shot.
If under 60 focus, cast a Cobra Shot then a third Explosive Shot.
Ok thanks I didn't read the whole thing, my fault on that.
04/24/2012 05:59 PMPosted by Trapped
Correct, Deceitful said it in her guide already


Haha, "her". He just likes looking at his draenei's tail.
04/26/2012 11:31 PMPosted by Braves
Haha, "her". He just likes looking at his draenei's tail.


Can't blame him in the least, better than chasing some mangy dude's dog tail around for hours and days.
A minor glyph i suggest for all hunters is the one that reduces pet size, it dosen't sound very useful but it reduce's your pet's hit box effectivly making them stick to the target like glue.
the reason i say this though is on fights where your pet has problems it keeps the pet in a range so that there is less(but due to what it does it is VERY situational that this happens its ok to go without it but its a preffered one)
I'm still slightly confused as to what my opening should be as far as maxing out DPS before I pop Rapid Fire. My opening is, in order (after applying HM), Serpent Sting > Black Arrow > Explosive Shot. Should I switch that up in any way to get more dps before completing the cycle?
Keep in mind that the first two explosive shots in an ES>ES>AS>ES rotation can clip, although it is rare. Due to spell queuing eliminating the latency between them, your second explosive can actually land at the exact same time as your first explosives second tick, clipping it and bringing the 3rd tick to the second ExS DoT (as is normal). It is more recommended to wait until you visibly see the GCD of your first ExS end to fire the second, allowing your own short reaction time to eliminate that possibility. But either way in the end it is likely a minimal difference, considering the relative rarity of the occurrence. Not quite as minimal a difference as whether or not you fire Serpent or Explosive first, IMO, but just something to keep in mind.

Proof, literally just tested 5 minutes ago:

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l64/Firephoenix11188/explosiveclip.jpg
04/20/2012 01:17 PMPosted by Trapped
The people at EJ may be good at math, but noxxic is wrong in many cases. I can find atleast 1 thing wrong in each of their class guides.


Don't get me started on my Noxxic complaints. I've been training my guildies NOT to suggest that site for certain classes.
So....the guide says to go for 757 haste rating as SV....yet I see alot of other hunters with way over 1000 haste as SV. So what caps am I actually aiming for here?
04/30/2012 03:18 AMPosted by Moodakris
So....the guide says to go for 757 haste rating as SV....yet I see alot of other hunters with way over 1000 haste as SV. So what caps am I actually aiming for here?

You still want 757/758 haste. There is a lot of haste on raiding gear this tier, so it's difficult to aim so low.
04/18/2012 11:56 AMPosted by Deceitful
Fire two consecutive Explosive Shots off the global cooldown

Since its actually a 2 second DoT, and firing two consecutively makes it so the first one doesn't get its full duration, Its a good idea to Fire One, arcane shot, then fire the other. Then the following can apply:

If over 60 focus, cast Arcane Shot then a third Explosive Shot.
If under 60 focus, cast a Cobra Shot then a third Explosive Shot.


Other than that I saw no issues and I have requested a sticky.
04/30/2012 08:11 AMPosted by Begginbits
Fire two consecutive Explosive Shots off the global cooldown

Since its actually a 2 second DoT, and firing two consecutively makes it so the first one doesn't get its full duration, Its a good idea to Fire One, arcane shot, then fire the other. Then the following can apply:

If over 60 focus, cast Arcane Shot then a third Explosive Shot.
If under 60 focus, cast a Cobra Shot then a third Explosive Shot.


Other than that I saw no issues and I have requested a sticky.

How exactly did you come to this conclusion? Unless you have 0ms latency, you won't have to worry about the first two ES clipping any ticks, IIRC. Therefore, the optimal LnL still remains ES>ES>AS>ES.
So....the guide says to go for 757 haste rating as SV....yet I see alot of other hunters with way over 1000 haste as SV. So what caps am I actually aiming for here?

You still want 757/758 haste. There is a lot of haste on raiding gear this tier, so it's difficult to aim so low.


So if I have like 1200 haste im jus wasting all that haste? Should I jus reforge over to mastery then? Assuming I've already reforged everything to crit as much as i could..
04/30/2012 04:44 PMPosted by Moodakris

You still want 757/758 haste. There is a lot of haste on raiding gear this tier, so it's difficult to aim so low.


So if I have like 1200 haste im jus wasting all that haste? Should I jus reforge over to mastery then? Assuming I've already reforged everything to crit as much as i could..

Exactly, reforge all haste to crit>mastery
One BIG thing to mention about Lock and Load is the lag time required between the 2 consecutive explosive shots. If you fire them off right behind each other then you clip one of the ticks off the first explosive which significantly hampers your dps. You must add a tiny amount of space after the GCD wears off (0.01 seconds will do it). This will allow you to get the full 9 ticks out of a lock and load. Otherwise you only get 8 which does decrease your dps.

Just tried it out on a target dummy and my results were:

Firing back to back: 164 ticks 164/3 = 54.6666 (repeating) : DPS on Dummy: 27k (approx)

Firing with lag time: 183 ticks 183/3 = 61 ticks : DPS on Dummy: 30k (approx)

Firing back to back yielded a number of ticks not divisible by 3 hence some ticks must have been clipped. Hence my dps was lower.

Edit: Please sticky this tho! It is a great guide! :D

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