Warriors In MoP

Warrior
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I rolled this guy for MOTP, I was gonna wait and do panda warrior but I dig this green badass. I tanked from 15-68 and had a blast, especially outland dungeons. I tried fury at 69 but just did not like it, arms though..Broooostorm. I've always wanted to level a warrior for years but never made it past the 30's and deleted. This guy is 2 -3 weeks old and 10 levels from cap. :)
If I quit this warrior I quit the game! Warrior since day 1 in Vanilla!
If you guys can get into the beta, DO IT... because the new rage system is completely different. It's basically become an energy/focus/rune bar now and I absolutely HATE the new system with a passion.

I've stuck through a LOT of changes to this class since 2005 but this is the one change that will finally retire my warrior for good. I wonder if most of you guys have any idea what's coming and will be really shocked once it goes live.
04/23/2012 05:18 AMPosted by Asdferty
Brawly, what do you use rage for? Using abilities? Mortal Strike is now 100% available, regardless of rage. You need 0 for it (it even gives you rage). Overpower, now comes free of charge, with the pressing of mortal strike or other overpowers. This means you now have 2-3 attacks that require 0 rage, and can be counted on every 6 seconds. That's 50% of your abilities in a rotation! That's not all, if you mortal strike, and do a white attack, you are going to have more than 30 rage (this is 100% true) to do a third attack. That's three out of four globals. In six seconds, you should be getting two white swings(ish), which means total rage generation is about 55 per rotation. If you started with a charge, or procced any overpowers, you will have a bulletproof rotation.


You sir just schooled that kid.

Here are my 2 cents:

Regarding rage as you say we will be kind of buffed. MS and OP not requiring rage is awesome and using rage to burst through Slam and HS spamming is pretty cool for pvp. The only thing that is a downside of not getting rage from taking hits is Piercing Howl (Spell Reflect is now free and 15 sec cd on Beta :) ) since we wont have rage sometimes to howl and snare our enemies which is something we live now on live and we still can save a Battle Shout for the rage.

Warriors are getting buffs come MOP. We will have more burst, same sustained if we want to, less suceptibility to snares and roots (Safeguard / Avatar), more utility (Gag Order + Banners + 5th tier + the fact that healers will not have to babysit you through dispels), better self heals (20% hp on a 1 min / 10% hp every 30 secs and second wind are going to result in more total healing than 30% hp every 3 minutes as it is on live.

Downsides I have seen: low crit means low enrage uptime which can hurt us couplend with hamstring being outdated still. Missing one MS can be huge to your rotation and you can be ragestarved and with not much to do for 3-6 secs until your autoattacks give you rage or MS comes off cd.
It doesn't matter how bad this class is. It will always be the best class in the game.
"Berserker Stance - A reckless combat stance. Generates rage from damage taken."

You happy now bro?
"Berserker Stance - A reckless combat stance. Generates rage from damage taken."

You happy now bro?


A DEFINITE step in the right direction though I wouldn't say it's enough. It definitely makes stance dancing a lot more compelling but at the same time until we have values for how much rage is generated we can't for sure it's a very good mechanic.

I wonder if the increased AoE damage is still tied into zerker. I really hope not.

While rage generation being tied into our stances is actually a very unique and fairly elegant solution to making them important again, we still need to have defined niches for each outside of rage management. An example is the fact that defensive stance now provides 15% damage reduction which is absolutely amazing.

Berserker stance providing something like 15% increased crit chance and 30% increased chance to be enraged and battle stance providing 20% armor penetration is an example of what I mean.

Obviously those exact changes would be mechanically horrid but you get the idea.
"Berserker Stance - A reckless combat stance. Generates rage from damage taken."

You happy now bro?


This sort of thing makes the rage change even more stupid. The fact they want to change rage from dmg taken to done, then back to taken (in Zerk stance), makes it look like they don't know wtf they are doing.

Goes to show rage is fine the way it is in Cata.
Glyph of Sweeping Strikes - Reduces the duration of Sweeping Strikes by 50%, but it hits one extra target

Sweeping Strikes - Cooldown removed.

Hm...I wonder if enemies still have to be RIGHT next to eachother? If not this could be very interesting for pvp
04/24/2012 12:33 PMPosted by Tedd
/salute


/Salute!

I hope those of you sticking it out enjoy yourselves and I admire your tenacity! My best advice is to abandon the forums entirely. It's the only sane choice. :) Reading class forums (outside of @day of course!) simply makes playing and staying positive-focused prior to an expansion (for any class) more difficult.

Which is a shame, because it also removes any feedback to said system. Those of you fighting to do what is right and balancing your enjoyment in-game as a consequence have my utmost respect. (Providing you're civil to each other! Everyone understands lapses happen, but it's important to be a better community than we currently are.)

04/24/2012 10:46 AMPosted by Shaniquaa
what is it that you dislike so much in beta caska?


It's a lot of things. (This is not a whine, just responding to an honest and rational question in kind.)

#1. The new rage system in general. If it's not broke, don't fix it. If you change it to be runic power/energy, then you're robbing the warrior class of its identity.

The new rage system has problems in generating vs spending rage. In the current model, I can charge, MS, rend, CS, MS, slam/heroic strike and make the most of my CS uptime. I can also time berserker rage during incoming damage to make the most of execute phase.

In the MOP model, I charge, MS, CS, slam and that's it. I feel like my CS uptime is wasted. Once the opportunity to charge is removed, it becomes a real struggle to maintain a rotation and properly pool rage for CS. Rage is simply too starved in MOP's current iteration.

#2. Succinctly, the loss of rage on damage taken. (This has huge ramifications in both pvp in addition to pve.)

#3. The changes to stances. Again, a core mechanic, altered for no reason.

They needed to reduce stance dancing fundamentally as Arms. But Arms needs to AOE, so ... and now if they really altered berserker stance, then they went in the polar opposite direction they needed to go. Bad design is getting worse.

#4. No new abilities but many lost abilities.

All of our talent choices are abilities we already have. I don't mind losing abilities, as everyone is to one extent or another. (Whether or not they balance out class-vs-class is another story altogether.) But warriors simply lose too much vs what we gain. They gave deathwish a fancy name, halved its duration and halved its CD, and made it level 90. This isn't just a disappointment, it's tantamount to robbery. It's a good change to the ability (fits better with reck and CS durations), but it's not a level 90 ability.

Deathwish, no matter what you want to name it, is a level 21 talent. I have to struggle for 5 levels without it (5.0 launches before MOP does, usually months in advance) for no reason whatsoever. It makes us weaker the moment 5.0 hits. This is a terrible design. I cannot stress this enough. Making us a yo-yo, re: power levels at 85 vs 90, is simply going to backfire hard on us as a class. If we're functional without avatar, we'll be overpowered with it. That's an inescapable fact. It means we're in for rollercoaster nerfs again or months (5.0 launch pre-expansion) of pain at the start.

04/24/2012 12:44 PMPosted by Dandrine
You didn't play enough to notice or adapt to the play style.


Change happens. But major change like this is bad for business. It will alienate players, another inescapable fact. There are consequences to that.

I can't seem to find it (may have been edited out? or the late hour is addling me), but there was someone pondering whether Blizzard would notice an absence of warriors come MOP. I doubt it. I suspect many people will quit prior to the expansion, or that the numbers simply won't be indicative one way or another as to cause and effect. It will be chalked up to attritrion. (It's an old game after all, as these things go.) Also, the annual pass will skew results as well. (My pass is good until October, for instance. I'm still 'quitting' and I'm not buying MOP.)

The fact is, newer players will still enjoy the game; these changes may not be 7 years worth of class identity and playstyle washed down the drain. (Enjoying the game despite that a good thing! I also envy them a little.) It's the old guard that will likely see fallout. More's the pity.
"Berserker Stance - A reckless combat stance. Generates rage from damage taken."

You happy now bro?


A DEFINITE step in the right direction though I wouldn't say it's enough. It definitely makes stance dancing a lot more compelling but at the same time until we have values for how much rage is generated we can't for sure it's a very good mechanic.

I wonder if the increased AoE damage is still tied into zerker. I really hope not.

While rage generation being tied into our stances is actually a very unique and fairly elegant solution to making them important again, we still need to have defined niches for each outside of rage management. An example is the fact that defensive stance now provides 15% damage reduction which is absolutely amazing.

Berserker stance providing something like 15% increased crit chance and 30% increased chance to be enraged and battle stance providing 20% armor penetration is an example of what I mean.

Obviously those exact changes would be mechanically horrid but you get the idea.


Someone was saying that we don't loose Rage for changing stances anymore in the Beta. Both Battle and Zerk stance provide rage while Defense stance provides threat and Damage reduction. With no rage loss I can see Changing Stances once you are comfortable with threat to be a nice way to avoid Rage starving. Switch back to Def stance once you have a comfortable amount of Rage
as of now I'm hating the new stances changes. Seriously preferred the zerker = + AoE than current build since we will only see someone in zerker when being kited and it's not an active stance.

Although it boosting aoe damage might be too OP with Dragon Roar being always a crit.
Look, if you're unhappy with the way Blizzard is handling the class, you can look outside of Blizzard games like GW2 or TERA or whatever the hell is coming out to get your fix.

Right now we shouldn't be moaning and groaning about what was... but focus on the future and give the devs some suggestions and ideas for changes we would like to see in MoP!
i dont understand the change to gaining rage while being attacked. right now the rage you get from a kidney and 60% of ur health being taken isnt even enough to attack once you finally come out of it...and now you have a 60% slow on you. the only way to get any decent rage is to burn a global on heroic leap...burn a charge...and thats just to be able to do anything but auto attack. How do you look at this class in the state its in and say that is necessary?
(PVP) Sided

Everyone knows warriors have been at the bottom of the cookie jar far a few seasons now, either way if you enjoy playing them cause they are a warrior and not because you like to skip from class OP each season then please comment on my next few statements

1) pvp aspect, Loosing (Melle range) throwdown, gaining (aoe range) shockwave - Pros = no 8 yard lag problems, multipul targets for greater offensive, defensive mechanics, Cons = warriors i seem are always lacking that one extra mechanic for the finishing shot, so giving us shockwave but taking away throwdown i think is a stalemate.

2) reduced rage mechanics for key elements of a warriors rotation for pvp is great. it then allows you to "have" rage when needed most, i.e to survive or defend.

3) after having played my warrior on the beta i do beleive warriors are less "squishy" some may disagree but thats what i feel in a pvp aspect.

4) the update to enrage regen is "great" its like having a trinket and tick all in one. no more last min deaths from a 2 sec DR counter.

5) from playing my warrior in MOP beat i also beleive that warrios have become less attractive from there high impact style of play mechanic on live i.e dropped alot of skillcap.

6) though i feel that this new method of no stance dancing will greatly boost the warriors offensive and defensive pressure. though i would like to see a more fluid dissarm back to offensive play in the future (imo)

7) Minor glyphs that give a theatrical aspect im against. there should be more usefull minors instead of eye candy (again my opinion)8) and last but not least and on a very side note.... panda roll (will) be nerfed lol, rogue sprint and roll please flag carriers beware
04/24/2012 11:28 PMPosted by Caska
/salute


/Salute!

I hope those of you sticking it out enjoy yourselves and I admire your tenacity! My best advice is to abandon the forums entirely. It's the only sane choice. :) Reading class forums (outside of @day of course!) simply makes playing and staying positive-focused prior to an expansion (for any class) more difficult.

Which is a shame, because it also removes any feedback to said system. Those of you fighting to do what is right and balancing your enjoyment in-game as a consequence have my utmost respect. (Providing you're civil to each other! Everyone understands lapses happen, but it's important to be a better community than we currently are.)

what is it that you dislike so much in beta caska?


It's a lot of things. (This is not a whine, just responding to an honest and rational question in kind.)

#1. The new rage system in general. If it's not broke, don't fix it. If you change it to be runic power/energy, then you're robbing the warrior class of its identity.

The new rage system has problems in generating vs spending rage. In the current model, I can charge, MS, rend, CS, MS, slam/heroic strike and make the most of my CS uptime. I can also time berserker rage during incoming damage to make the most of execute phase.

In the MOP model, I charge, MS, CS, slam and that's it. I feel like my CS uptime is wasted. Once the opportunity to charge is removed, it becomes a real struggle to maintain a rotation and properly pool rage for CS. Rage is simply too starved in MOP's current iteration.

#2. Succinctly, the loss of rage on damage taken. (This has huge ramifications in both pvp in addition to pve.)

#3. The changes to stances. Again, a core mechanic, altered for no reason.

They needed to reduce stance dancing fundamentally as Arms. But Arms needs to AOE, so ... and now if they really altered berserker stance, then they went in the polar opposite direction they needed to go. Bad design is getting worse.

#4. No new abilities but many lost abilities.

All of our talent choices are abilities we already have. I don't mind losing abilities, as everyone is to one extent or another. (Whether or not they balance out class-vs-class is another story altogether.) But warriors simply lose too much vs what we gain. They gave deathwish a fancy name, halved its duration and halved its CD, and made it level 90. This isn't just a disappointment, it's tantamount to robbery. It's a good change to the ability (fits better with reck and CS durations), but it's not a level 90 ability.

Deathwish, no matter what you want to name it, is a level 21 talent. I have to struggle for 5 levels without it (5.0 launches before MOP does, usually months in advance) for no reason whatsoever. It makes us weaker the moment 5.0 hits. This is a terrible design. I cannot stress this enough. Making us a yo-yo, re: power levels at 85 vs 90, is simply going to backfire hard on us as a class. If we're functional without avatar, we'll be overpowered with it. That's an inescapable fact. It means we're in for rollercoaster nerfs again or months (5.0 launch pre-expansion) of pain at the start.

You didn't play enough to notice or adapt to the play style.


Change happens. But major change like this is bad for business. It will alienate players, another inescapable fact. There are consequences to that.

I can't seem to find it (may have been edited out? or the late hour is addling me), but there was someone pondering whether Blizzard would notice an absence of warriors come MOP. I doubt it. I suspect many people will quit prior to the expansion, or that the numbers simply won't be indicative one way or another as to cause and effect. It will be chalked up to attritrion. (It's an old game after all, as these things go.) Also, the annual pass will skew results as well. (My pass is good until October, for instance. I'm still 'quitting' and I'm not buying MOP.)

The fact is, newer players will still enjoy the game; these changes may not be 7 years worth of class identity and playstyle washed down the drain. (Enjoying the game despite that a good thing! I also envy them a little.) It's the old guard that will likely see fallout. More's the pity.


I like you. I like you very much.

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