[Suggestion] Progressive raiding

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
So with the dragon soul patch I noticed that it was short, fast progressing and above all boring.

SO I have a suggestion which may help the life of the game as a whole and the patches within a game.

At the moment with raiding there are 3 difficulties (RF, Norm, Heroic) and these appear to be working very well however they get very repetitive, very quickly. So my idea revolves around these difficulties somewhat.

What I propose is to bring out 3 raids per patch with 6 bosses each (18 bosses in total), now in Normal mode these bosses would be just like normal bosses we see today (same sort of difficulty) and it would be the same for raid finder. However I think these fights should be completely different in heroic so that you are essentially fighting the same boss but the mechanics would be completely different like an entirely new boss fight all together but would drop the same heroic loot. This was there is no room for complaints about lack of content as there would be 36 bosses to kill.

Now here's the twist... So that hardcore raiding guild don't smash the content in the first month have it so that heroic raids get significantly more difficult per boss, for example the first boss in a heroic raid should be the easiest and each subsequent bosses difficulty would be the previous bosses difficulty +100% more damage.

or something like that. I'm tired so that probs makes know sense... I KNOW WHAT I MEAN lol.
Why do people keep saying "heroic bosses should be heroic" in these topics? Blizzard's shying away from the "everyone improve" model and is instead going Harrison Bergeron with raiding.
or they could stop trying to make heroic raids something that EVERYONE clears, instead of just the high end raiders that want a challenge

in DS, normal mode was just a 1 week formality, until the actual raiding began on week 2
or they could stop trying to make heroic raids something that EVERYONE clears, instead of just the high end raiders that want a challenge

in DS, normal mode was just a 1 week formality, until the actual raiding began on week 2


No heroics should be something everybody clears... You shouldn't get to feel like a special snowflake just because you can kill a boss. My idea bases around the idea that each boss you face will be significantly more difficult then the last. Kind of like ICC.. Remember how most players had around 10 - 11 Heroic fights down by the end of the xpac but killing the Lich King in normal still felt like an accomplishment to them.. because lich king was actually challenging to the average player.

Fast forward to today can anyone really say they felt accomplished when they killed deathwing for the first time? I know my first kill was the first boss I ever cleared in the instance and it felt like a complete joke, but you can't just delete the flawed system that is raid finder because 100 many people would cry, so this is how I propose difficulty goes.

Raid finder - the only boss that would be more difficult would be the last which would take on a normal level of difficulty.

Normal - 1st boss harder then the last boss of raid finder with bosses getting progressively harder with the final encounter feeling more like a first heroic

Heroic - Same bosses and harder but completely different mechanics and boss style so that raiders would have to learn an encounter from scratch rather then go in knowing that it's the same fight but more damage.
05/03/2012 09:46 AMPosted by Darthasane
Why do people keep saying "heroic bosses should be heroic" in these topics? Blizzard's shying away from the "everyone improve" model and is instead going Harrison Bergeron with raiding.


Never did I say that.
05/03/2012 06:24 PMPosted by Skìttles
No heroics should be something everybody clears... You shouldn't get to feel like a special snowflake just because you can kill a boss.

If they are supposed to be something everyone clears, what the heck are the higher-end raiders supposed to do?
05/03/2012 06:24 PMPosted by Skìttles
No heroics should be something everybody clears... You shouldn't get to feel like a special snowflake just because you can kill a boss.


heroics werent meant for everyone to clear, they were designed to be a challenge for the hardcore raiding community who were bored with how easy normal raids are, normal modes were for people who wanna see content, and for more casual players

05/03/2012 06:24 PMPosted by Skìttles
My idea bases around the idea that each boss you face will be significantly more difficult then the last. Kind of like ICC..


the difficulty in DS ramps up quite quickly in the 2nd half of the raid, look at spine/madness, they r miles ahead of morchok/yors in difficulty

05/03/2012 06:24 PMPosted by Skìttles
Fast forward to today can anyone really say they felt accomplished when they killed deathwing for the first time?


its cuz everyone in this game feels they and entitled to be able to clear all the content, so blizzard caved and made the fights easier again, despite adding LFR to the game, so now the meaning of "Seeing content" has come to include full heroic clears

i wish they would design more fights like H rag, normal mode phases have more mechanics, along with a whole new phase to the fight on heroic

and rag was a good fight for what heroic fights should b like, a massive jump in difficulty over normal mode

What I propose is to bring out 3 raids per patch with 6 bosses each (18 bosses in total), now in Normal mode these bosses would be just like normal bosses we see today (same sort of difficulty) and it would be the same for raid finder. However I think these fights should be completely different in heroic so that you are essentially fighting the same boss but the mechanics would be completely different like an entirely new boss fight all together but would drop the same heroic loot. This was there is no room for complaints about lack of content as there would be 36 bosses to kill..


Don't you think if Blizzard was capable of churning out that much content every patch cycle they would? It would be nearly impossible to have patches come out in a timely fashion containing such a massive content boost, unless they were alpha, buggy messes.

What I propose is to bring out 3 raids per patch with 6 bosses each (18 bosses in total), now in Normal mode these bosses would be just like normal bosses we see today (same sort of difficulty) and it would be the same for raid finder. However I think these fights should be completely different in heroic so that you are essentially fighting the same boss but the mechanics would be completely different like an entirely new boss fight all together but would drop the same heroic loot. This was there is no room for complaints about lack of content as there would be 36 bosses to kill..


Don't you think if Blizzard was capable of churning out that much content every patch cycle they would? It would be nearly impossible to have patches come out in a timely fashion containing such a massive content boost, unless they were alpha, buggy messes.


Time is not such a constraint when there is ample content available to the populace.

Look back at vanilla naxx, 40 player raid. Now... What if that had normal and heroic.. Both 40 man. Heroic was the difficulty it was and normal was a bit easier for those not so serious about raiding... It also had 15 bosses.... 15!!! so please do not tell me blizzard cant make big patches.

Blizzard is being sloppy with its content, I can see it.. But you seem to look through rose colored glasses and see only the good of blizzards creation...

Tell me, what is the point of killing deathwing?
Why does anyone want to kill him?

Loot....
There is no deeper meaning for bosses anymore... It's all about loot. I couldn't care any less about loot which is why I don't raid anymore... I killed deathwing in raid finder... in my eyes... He's dead what incentive do I have to do normal (I have also done norm) other then loot? none.

When I killed the Lich King for the first time... I felt good (even on normal), I felt as if we had finally done it... and that is what made me do heroic, if it felt epic on normal imagine how it would feel on heroic. But come dragon soul... Both Raid finder and normal kills just felt lacking.

I'm not saying my idea is perfect but it could be a step in bringing back the epic feeling that killing a boss gives you, because atm there is no feeling in it... even the end boss is just another boss.

EDIT: Also at your comment about blizzard 'churning out bosses' I think they are quite capable if they don't have to create a new environment for the additional 18 bosses. remember tuning a boss would take no where near as much time as crafting an enviroment
05/03/2012 09:14 AMPosted by Skìttles
However I think these fights should be completely different in heroic so that you are essentially fighting the same boss but the mechanics would be completely different like an entirely new boss fight all together but would drop the same heroic loot.


Blizzard has trouble balancing three different modes for eight bosses. It is obvious that heroic is the base boss design and they simply remove things for normal and LFR mode. They didn't even design unique boss rooms for DS. We already know they scrapped the vasjir raid so we could have more FL bosses (a grand total of 7). How could they manage three separate raids?
I believe what you are saying is this: For blizzard to make hard-modes they should extra mechanics to the normal mode that change the fight, rather than just beef up the numbers. I agree with this idea. But, blizzard already does this... with some bosses, it would be better if they designed hard-modes around this idea. Also the same can be done with raid-finder, make bosses easier by removing mechanics, rather than damage.

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