Castable CC's

Arenas
Cyclone and blind are examples of castable CC's that have no counter by another class.

You really want Blind to be dispellable?
When it has (relative to most other CCs) a year long CD?
You would basically have to take the CD way down.

Cyclone is a much shorter CC, with a short range, which is why it has the strength it does.
It's the only CC without a true way to remove it. Everything else has something.
And it's not that big of a deal.

wtf sele cmon :<


"You would basically have to take the CD way down."

I have no disagreement with that consideration.

It should be dispellable and if doing so made the skill not very good because its CD was so long then I would also agree with decreasing the CD.

In conideration of you consider if blind had a CD of say 25-30 seconds and was dispellable I think you probably would be okay with that.
Or your partners can stop being bad and interrupt the castable CC... you know... because it has a cast bar in most cases.

Blind has a long cooldown to offset how powerful and non dispellable it is. Cyclone has a short reach, short duration and very harsh DR on it.

Dispells are too powerful as is, they don't need to be more powerful by being the answer to everything.
Or your partners can stop being bad and interrupt the castable CC... you know... because it has a cast bar in most cases.

Blind has a long cooldown to offset how powerful and non dispellable it is. Cyclone has a short reach, short duration and very harsh DR on it.

Dispells are too powerful as is, they don't need to be more powerful by being the answer to everything.


Polymorph, Most fears, and Hex have cast bars too, can be interrupted and can also be dispelled = Null argument.

Blind has a 3 minute cooldown. Make it dispellable and change the cd to 30-45 seconds or something.

Cyclone has similar range as hoj and hex, lasts 5 seconds initially about the same as hoj and hex and its DR properties reset somewhere around 30 seconds which is still a shorter cooldown than hoj or hex.

These arguments are all null when properly compared.
05/10/2012 02:08 PMPosted by Zealotsfury
Blind has a 3 minute cooldown. Make it dispellable and change the cd to 30-45 seconds or something.


I'm fine with this, because the person I'd be using it on is the one that would be able to dispel it.
Cyclone's range is 20 yds... it's the shortest range for CC outside of melee ones.

Only boomkins can talent it for a longer distance, and that is frankly needed as that is pretty much their only real defense. If you're having issues vs boomkins in pvp then I suggest you get a better group, because boomkins are easy to take down... most of their damage is long cast time nukes and babysitting their eclipse bar.

Resto druids are a joke in pvp... and feral can instant CC cyclone, but they have the 20yd range restriction... and the buff is dispellable on them. So all your arguments are moot.

Next you'll be asking if you can dispel stuns as it's 'unfair' by your logic.
Cyclone's range is 20 yds... it's the shortest range for CC outside of melee ones.

Only boomkins can talent it for a longer distance, and that is frankly needed as that is pretty much their only real defense. If you're having issues vs boomkins in pvp then I suggest you get a better group, because boomkins are easy to take down... most of their damage is long cast time nukes and babysitting their eclipse bar.

Resto druids are a joke in pvp... and feral can instant CC cyclone, but they have the 20yd range restriction... and the buff is dispellable on them. So all your arguments are moot.

Next you'll be asking if you can dispel stuns as it's 'unfair' by your logic.


http://www.wowhead.com/spell=853

HoJ is 10 yards thats half of cyclone. As a holy paladin I don't have a problem with that I think its fine so why are you complaining. Range is not unfair for you.

If you read my post throughly I clearly stated that Melee/Ranged physical CC such as Throwdown and Scatter shot should not be dispellable.

Stop complaining and actually address my logic arguments properly please.
If all ranged CC's were dispellable, I'd honestly just run a hardcore melee cleave and have a priest sit back and spam mass dispel while I tunneled all day.
05/10/2012 02:23 PMPosted by Sheevah
If all ranged CC's were dispellable, I'd honestly just run a hardcore melee cleave and have a priest sit back and spam mass dispel while I tunneled all day


This is also true... and a better rebuttle than I made ...

Basically OP, undispellable CC is there for a reason. You can QQ about it as much as you want, but it's essential to be there as well as some that is dispellable. You look at individual CCs but not what else the class can bring that balances out the need for them to have dispellable or undispellable CC.
05/10/2012 02:23 PMPosted by Sheevah
If all ranged CC's were dispellable, I'd honestly just run a hardcore melee cleave and have a priest sit back and spam mass dispel while I tunneled all day.


Thats a separate issue and should be addressed but neither is an excuse to justify your position.

All your really simply saying is blizzard needs to introduce more intelligible mechanics to mitigate melee damage.

In guildwars there was 1 skill that solved the issue of melee cleaves.

The skill was a healer support skill called guardian that you could cast on a target ally giving them a chance to evade attacks.

Melee cleaves can so easily be solved. This is not a proper justification.
05/10/2012 02:23 PMPosted by Sheevah
If all ranged CC's were dispellable, I'd honestly just run a hardcore melee cleave and have a priest sit back and spam mass dispel while I tunneled all day.


Run ret/dk/disc and you can do this now.

OT: I would trade cyclone for fear anyday. Cyclone is a very powerful cc, with many good uses, but I would prefer fear even if it is dispellable. Most every cc right now is dispellable, which is something that makes spriests very powerful in 3s. I would honestly prefer much harder dr on cc, with a balance in healing output so that cc was more meaningful and less spammable.
05/10/2012 02:37 PMPosted by Zealotsfury
Thats a separate issue and should be addressed but neither is an excuse to justify your position.


The thing is, we don't have to justify our positions.

You're the one promoting the change, which means that the burden of proof lies on your side. So far, you've explained why you don't like the current system, but you've not offered anything factual as to why it needs to be changed.

You keep comparing WoW to Guild Wars, which is an apples to oranges comparison.

You're going to have to give more than an "I don't like it" style presentation on the topic before anyone has to try to seriously refute your stance.

05/10/2012 02:38 PMPosted by Andoriian
Run ret/dk/disc and you can do this now.


Touche

I don't have any of those classes, and I'm too lazy to level up another toon just so I can faceroll my way to 2k+

>.<
The thing is, we don't have to justify our positions.

You're the one promoting the change, which means that the burden of proof lies on your side. So far, you've explained why you don't like the current system, but you've not offered anything factual as to why it needs to be changed.


Actually my first post covered almost entirely all the necessary proof.

Here is your direct proof:

Cyclone for example is almost identical to Fear and Polymorph.

-None have CDs
-All are spammable (on DRs)
-Durations are nearly similar
-Under normal caster conditions, all have 2-3 second cast times.
-Fear/Polymorph are removable, cyclone is not.

What entitles druids to have a superior CC ability to say a warlock or a mage?

I have strong proof that a change is something to seriously consider.

The burden of proof is on you to "counter" these claims which you have yet to do.
05/10/2012 02:51 PMPosted by Eponine
Isn't blind in the physical school? What makes it different from scatter/throwdown then?


Its behavior is the same as a medium ranged instant cast ability.

You are not applying the effect by matter of a melee strike or a ranged strike such that of a hunter.

You are effectively casting a skill on someone so it should be treated as a spell/magic ability.
05/10/2012 02:46 PMPosted by Zealotsfury
Cyclone for example is almost identical to Fear and Polymorph.


This is just incorrect.

Aside from having a shorter duration (9 seconds for full-half instead of 12) it has a very different playstyle associated. For example, you would never cast poly onto a kill target, but cycloning kill targets is sometimes a good idea.

You can tunnel damage into a feared target, but not a polyed target without breaking the cc, and not at all into a cycloned target.

Pathing of fear makes it the strongest cc in the game. One of the most important aspect of pvp is positioning, and fear completely removes your ability to position.

Additionally, warlocks and mages are currently stronger in all aspects of pvp. If your argument is to balance it out, you should be arguing to buff cyclone.

I'm not really sure what you are arguing for or against. What changes do you want to see happen to cc, and why?
If everybody has a dispellable cc, then any team without a second dispeller is effectively screwed by the system.

It's like ret burst right now. If the opposing team has a mage/priest/shaman/hunter with a brain, they get dispelled and are useless. However, if the opposing team has no offensive dispels, it's an incredible burst.

It was what is wrong with dispels - either you balance around the opposing teams having one, or you balance around the opposing team not having one. It cannot be balanced both ways.

From what you seem to be complaining about, make every cc shorter duration but nondispellable.

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