Rogues in MoP

Rogue
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Can somebody explain to me whats the deal with rogues in MoP, how they are going to change and etc? I am not educated in this yet.
Check the updated talents page for rogues. Not much change but a few different tricks.
06/15/2012 04:23 PMPosted by Vintorez
Check the updated talents page for rogues. Not much change but a few different tricks.


Where is the updated stuff anyways. I went to Wowhead and the latest patch notes only go up to 4.3 cata, I can't find Pandaria spell changes/nerfs/buffs!
06/15/2012 03:44 PMPosted by Shizz
how they are going to change


TBH...they arent.

Comabt and Mut's play style will change slightly do to RvS change and Dispatch procs.

Sub will now have to keep up rupture and SnD in PvP.

Thats....about in basically.
why rupture in pvp ? i might be a noob to pvp but the only times i use rupture are on mages to kill their ice shield thingy and on tanks.
06/15/2012 07:36 PMPosted by Columbia
why rupture in pvp ? i might be a noob to pvp but the only times i use rupture are on mages to kill their ice shield thingy and on tanks.


Well you know that nifty little SV buff....the one that boosts your damage by 25%?

Yea in MoP they are making so you only get that when your target is Rutpture, Crimson Tempest, or Garroted.

They took off hemo from the off (the sub spec specific bleed...ironicly).

So even if the damage is poor once garrote wears off you will need to apply rupture to get that damage boost.

So in PvP sub will have to keep up SnD,Rupture, and Recup (unless no one is targeting them).


Thats....about in basically.


dont forget we have to choose between step and prep. not good. that is a huge nerf
06/15/2012 05:48 PMPosted by Timat
how they are going to change


TBH...they arent.

Comabt and Mut's play style will change slightly do to RvS change and Dispatch procs.

Sub will now have to keep up rupture and SnD in PvP.

Thats....about in basically.

Its nice that you left out all the things nerfed to the ground lol.


Thats....about in basically.


dont forget we have to choose between step and prep. not good. that is a huge nerf


Heh, for Sub it is. That sucks hard.
Basically: sub got a massive, massive nerf. Combat and mut arguably got a pvp buff because of shadow step and burst of speed for mobility. I'm sure you know how all players take receiving nerfs, not well.

For pve: sub's rotation is so similar to combat's now with no more recoup required to keep up. This understandibly has not been well received by those who like sub for its difficulty and fun. Combat rotation stayed the same though we shall see what combat potency being ppm will do for our OH weapons. But playstyle wise combat is the same mostly with a slightly more interedting revealing strike change that should be relatively more interesting. Mut changed a bit. They have dispatch replacing backstab as execute phase. Mutilate can proc the ability to use dispatch. Also, venomous wounds doesn't stack with garrote and rupture up (they don't want vanish to be a dps CD.)
06/15/2012 11:31 PMPosted by Gankz


TBH...they arent.

Comabt and Mut's play style will change slightly do to RvS change and Dispatch procs.

Sub will now have to keep up rupture and SnD in PvP.

Thats....about in basically.

Its nice that you left out all the things nerfed to the ground lol.


I didnt want to break his spirit.
Mutilate also lost overkill, for the same reasoning related to vanish.

As to rotations...

Assassination Combat Subtlety

Combo point Mutilate Sin. strike Backstab
Generation Dispatch Rev. strike Hemorrhage

Combo point Slice and dice Slice and dice Slice and dice
Allocation Rupture Rupture Rupture
Envenom Eviscerate Eviscerate

AoE Fan of knives Fan of knives Fan of knives
Crimson tempest Crimson tempest Crimson tempest

Cleave Blade flurry

DPS Shadow blades Shadow blades Shadow blades
Cooldowns Redirect Redirect Redirect
Vendetta Adrenaline rush Shadow dance
Killing spree Premeditation

I'm going to need a power aura to tell me which spec I'm in. -.-
Mutilate also lost overkill, for the same reasoning related to vanish.

As to rotations...

Assassination Combat Subtlety

Combo point Mutilate Sin. strike Backstab
Generation Dispatch Rev. strike Hemorrhage

Combo point Slice and dice Slice and dice Slice and dice
Allocation Rupture Rupture Rupture
Envenom Eviscerate Eviscerate

AoE Fan of knives Fan of knives Fan of knives
Crimson tempest Crimson tempest Crimson tempest

Cleave Blade flurry

DPS Shadow blades Shadow blades Shadow blades
Cooldowns Redirect Redirect Redirect
Vendetta Adrenaline rush Shadow dance
Killing spree Premeditation

I'm going to need a power aura to tell me which spec I'm in. -.-


It would be interesting to see how the lock specs rotations are atm on live, to see if they have the same or worse or better issue that we do atm.
Gonna have to choose between prep and shadowstep, I guess that's the big change. Gameplay wise, not much changes, same old stuff. Poisons work a bit different, but nothing mindblowing.
I was thinking... maybe the beta testers could make some pvp videos with rogues in their 90 pvp gears and comment on the playability to use as feedback for the developers... Just to shove it down their throats.


dont forget we have to choose between step and prep. not good. that is a huge nerf


*for Sub

For someone like me, who didn't play their rogue for this entire expansion because I dislike being forced to play Sub PvP, it's actually a huge buff.
06/18/2012 06:48 AMPosted by Prydo
I guess I won't be playing my rogue when MoP launches. They completely nerfed this class to sh!t. Oh well, That's exactly why I switch between a warrior, paladin, shaman and rogue. For situations like this. When huge class nerfs come into play.


Any Rogue who has been playing for a long time fully expects to be weak at the beginning of every expansion. lol It's just the way it goes unfortunately. After a bit, they'll get enough data to come to the conclusion "Hey! What is this?! Rogues are underperforming! :O" at which point they'll buff us in the first or second patch. Much to the chagrin of the 100's of Rogues, many posting on the Forums, telling them just that for months.

The buffs won't be enough overall, and in the next major content patch, they'll buff us again. Once that happens, we'll be roughly equal to the other classes, at which point the "OMG Rogues are soooo OP! Plees fix Blizz!" threads begin.

Or, maybe I'm jaded, and we'll be decent at the start for once! lol We'll see I suppose.
I guess I won't be playing my rogue when MoP launches. They completely nerfed this class to sh!t. Oh well, That's exactly why I switch between a warrior, paladin, shaman and rogue. For situations like this. When huge class nerfs come into play.


Any Rogue who has been playing for a long time fully expects to be weak at the beginning of every expansion. lol It's just the way it goes unfortunately. After a bit, they'll get enough data to come to the conclusion "Hey! What is this?! Rogues are underperforming! :O" at which point they'll buff us in the first or second patch. Much to the chagrin of the 100's of Rogues, many posting on the Forums, telling them just that for months.

The buffs won't be enough overall, and in the next major content patch, they'll buff us again. Once that happens, we'll be roughly equal to the other classes, at which point the "OMG Rogues are soooo OP! Plees fix Blizz!" threads begin.


My problem this time is that so many things have been nerfed that it will take more than just adjusting some numbers as far as pvp goes. And you know how they are about changing mechanics on us other than when beta's start. And pve its one thing to be weak its another to be so slow and boring at the start of an expansion.
V, your chart in post #12 is outstanding.

It's still a little too early to say for sure how rogues will play in competitive PvP or in raids, since 1) those parts of the game aren't available for testing yet and 2) damage output hasn't been fully tuned and balanced yet.

But one thing to note, beyond the stuff mentioned above regarding the "nerfs" to Sub (which I put in quotes because I don't think "nerf" is the right word for it -- it's more that what it means to be a PvP Sub rogue, and the tools a Sub rogue most commonly uses, may undergo some changes, which may make them noticeably weaker, or may just help bring them down to earth where they belong), is what V touched on above when he mentioned the removal of Overkill for Assassination: It looks like rogues on the whole will be pretty energy-starved as they level from 85 through 90. As a result the gameplay may feel slow (especially as Assassination) until we get enough haste on our gear to noticeably improve energy regen.

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