Frost DK PvP build

Death Knight
Hello. I recently started leveling a DK, decided to go the route of blood tanking pve, frost pvp.

I'm trying to find a solid UPDATED build for both, but they both seem to fluctuate more than any other spec I've seen. Definitely not black and white.

Every DKs spec seems different in a big way from what I can see, but as far as the Frost build goes, where would I be able to find a set build with set glyphs? And anyone mind explaining why each DKs I see talent calc vary so much? Is it really that tech based?
The sticked one is up to date still.
Since I assume you will be lvl'n in the BG's I like this build a bit better.

You won't be using Strangulate as much in BG's.

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#j0hZGcRrfzRd0ufM:MmaqV00m
07/04/2012 08:11 PMPosted by Charmless
And anyone mind explaining why each DKs I see talent calc vary so much? Is it really that tech based?


To answer this frost can be played with 2H or DW, after that people usually either spec into strangulate or desecration. Further more some ppl spec into rime which I don't recommend, theres a whole thread about obliterate and using it so I won't get into it here. That is why you see varying types of frost builds.
07/05/2012 09:30 AMPosted by Tastic
You won't be using Strangulate as much in BG's.


Lol'ed a bunch. The strongest silence in the game and you use it less in BG's. Ummm, okay?
Well I see a lot more melee in BG that it won't do anything for. It is awesome and you will use it but I think it has a better place in the Arena over the BG, that is all.

Can't really get to the build that has Strangulate till 81/82. Won't help lvl'n in the BG.
8/31/2 is generally the best frost PvP spec.

If DW, take the 3 points in annihilation and move them to the DW talent.

3 BA, 2 Blade barrier, 1 scent of blood 2 hand of doom

2/2 unholy command

prime glyphs: Icy touch, Frost strike, HB

majors: AMS, strang, hungering


wha??
07/05/2012 03:39 PMPosted by Darkrachet
check me out


What rotations do you use?
Rofl this tread is gonna have him all jacked up.

It really depends on what you are doing.

Random Bgs... Rated Bgs.... Arena.

Abilities like Desecration are flat out worthless as turd in Random BGs, but very useful in the other 2.

Where as I find Hand of Doom more useful in Randoms, because nobody focuses healers and Strangulate can let you down healers by yourself... you can just do it more often which makes you that much more useful/dangerous.

Lot of people on here will frown on an Obliterate build, but for Randoms its probably the best, simply because nobody is geared and as soon as you are not in full Cata, Oblit wrecks you a lot worse than the accepted Necrotic strike/HB combo.

But, as usual everybody has opinions that everybody else will counter with random whatnot.

Abilities like Desecration are flat out worthless as turd in Random BGs, but very useful in the other 2.

how is an undispellable aoe snare worthless?
in capture the flag maps it can be used to seperate people from their healers.
in node capture maps it gives your teammates that cant as readily apply snares or self peal something to kite through.


Lot of people on here will frown on an Obliterate build, but for Randoms its probably the best, simply because nobody is geared and as soon as you are not in full Cata, Oblit wrecks you a lot worse than the accepted Necrotic strike/HB combo.

But, as usual everybody has opinions that everybody else will counter with random whatnot.

obliterate is less damage than howling blast necrotic combos for the same rune cost. this is a fact not an opinion and gear differences have no bearing on this. obliterate is used so sparingly and "frowned upon" because of its situational usefullness. the only time an obliterate is better than howling blast/necrotic is when you are using it as an execute with a killing machine proc on low armor targets.
Actually gear is 100% the factor.. less armor or resil... Obliterate goes thought the roof... and since most randoms nobody ccs properly you will get lot of Rime proc for free HBs... I know this racks your "I read the forums alot" but, in game that's how it works.

You comments bear on Rated Bgs not randoms.

Desecration is cool and all, but you are also "imagining" it being used in tandem with your team.. randoms = what team... better to just make yourself more effective at burst DPS.

As I said people like to say random things they read so they "fit in".

I do have both builds, but they are equally good in Randoms because it really does not matter what you do... but, in the end Oblit has an edge because more often than not all it comes down to in Randoms is "did I burst enough" when it mattered.

And also keep in mind when you do randoms in your full Cata with a Heroic weapon crutch... it's a c o m p l t e l y different experience than the other 90% of the DKs in randoms.
Actually gear is 100% the factor.. less armor or resil... Obliterate goes thought the roof... and since most randoms nobody ccs properly you will get lot of Rime proc for free HBs... I know this racks your "I read the forums alot" but, in game that's how it works.

You comments bear on Rated Bgs not randoms.

Desecration is cool and all, but you are also "imagining" it being used in tandem with your team.. randoms = what team... better to just make yourself more effective at burst DPS.

As I said people like to say random things they read so they "fit in".

I do have both builds, but they are equally good in Randoms because it really does not matter what you do... but, in the end Oblit has an edge because more often than not all it comes down to in Randoms is "did I burst enough" when it mattered.

And also keep in mind when you do randoms in your full Cata with a Heroic weapon crutch... it's a c o m p l t e l y different experience than the other 90% of the DKs in randoms.

gear has no bearing because obliterate for the same rune cost is less damage than howling blast necrotic combos. regardless of your opponents gear it is a FACT.
in terms of burst damage done i already explained why obliterate is bad. outside of using it as an execute that kills your opponent in that gcd it is less damage than howling blast x2 or howling blast necrotic. so in terms of actual burst damage obliterate does not win out unless you are using it as a kb. you also assume that every single person you fight in a random is totally undergeared. this is not always the case so why not do what will work 100% of the time instead of something that only works some times?

just to reiterate. 2x howling blast or howling blast necrotic > 1 obliterate.
even with rime spec this holds true
2x howling blast > obliterate + howling
you also undervalue an undispellable aoe snare. the undispellable part is what should jump out at you. dispel happy healers will leave you turtleing your way to kill targets because frosts snares can be removed. once again in node capture maps not only your team but you yourself benefit from laying down an undispellable aoe snare. bgs even randoms are not won by a single person.

p.s. if everyone playing a frost dk for random bgs should be as concerned about burst damage as you imply they would all be dw spec which shouldnt be using obliterate ever as its howling blasts hit even harder than 2h. (hell everything save necrotic strikes physical portion hits harder as dw)
As I said, there is no point in posting numbers or other nonsense, because people have their own theories as the above.

If you take a flat out obliterate build or a cc build your results will be exactly the same as I stated. If you are going to group with other people you will be more useful with the CC build, if you just want to wail on people and be top dps arguing against the Obliterate build is just pointless because you will see that you are top dps in game or close to it (sans boomkin).

You also keep comparing NS and HB to just Oblit... its not like Frost strike is not being used or up enough to just spam it inbetween rune regeneration (in unholy pres).

Just play both in game, because you will see with your own eyes (not just read garbage on here) that obliterate nets you more overall dps by far.

It just depends on what you want to do.

Please just make the builds for yourself and view the results in game because taking peoples advice like Kusari's (who honestly are just repeating stuff they read) will only limit your experience... the main issue on the forums is that everybody makes their conclusions based on the best gear and the best weapons... if you don't have those what you see in game is NOTHING as they describe it (regardless of your skill or any other nonsense... your numbers are not their numbers)
As I said, there is no point in posting numbers or other nonsense, because people have their own theories as the above.

If you take a flat out obliterate build or a cc build your results will be exactly the same as I stated. If you are going to group with other people you will be more useful with the CC build, if you just want to wail on people and be top dps arguing against the Obliterate build is just pointless because you will see that you are top dps in game or close to it (sans boomkin).

Just play both in game, because you will see with your own eyes (not just read garbage on here) that obliterate nets you more overall dps by far.

It just depends on what you want to do.

Please just make the builds for yourself and view the results in game because taking peoples advice like Kusari's (who honestly are just repeating stuff they read) will only limit your experience... the main issue on the forums is that everybody makes their conclusions based on the best gear and the best weapons... if you don't have those what you see in game is NOTHING as they describe it (regardless of your skill or any other nonsense... your numbers are not their numbers)

yes my over 30k life time kills from bgs prove im just a forum junky repeating stuff that ive read. i clearly dont go out and test this stuff myself to see if its actually true.

i dont know how many times i have to say this for you to get this through your head.
Howling blast is more damage than obliterate per rune. it is impossible to outdamage someone who uses howling blast over obliterate wether you spec for it or not.

the only garbage being posted here is you implying that obliterate is any good outside of an execute window on low armor classes.

once again gear has no bearing on how this plays out. if you are fighting a lesser geared target all of your abilities are going to hit harder not just obliterate.

tl;dr version: post something based on facts not your anecddotal crap.
At this point its just like fishing with dynamite. You really are going to make me bust a gut with your nerd rage. You said what you had to say, thanks and all... just let the op see it in game, and he will see exactly what I said he will see. Not every game is based off of Rated or Arena "common knowledge".
07/24/2012 09:15 AMPosted by Necrana
At this point its just like fishing with dynamite. You really are going to make me bust a gut with your nerd rage. You said what you had to say, thanks and all... just let the op see it in game, and he will see exactly what I said he will see. Not every game is based off of Rated or Arena "common knowledge".


whats really funny is how absolutely horrid your arguments are.

theories? your theories have been disproven with common class knowledge. not arena or rated knowledge. all of the things i have said can easily be tested with a training dummy and recount.

i have no doubt that in the average pug bg you can run around using obliterate and come to moderate success with it. however the misinformation like saying an obliterate using dk will outperform a howling blast dk is just laughable. please back up your argument with proof that obliterate is somehow better damage than the accepted howling blast necrotic rotation otherwise its anecdotal crap and should be disregarded.

your gear difference argument is equally stupid as i said before all of your abilities hit harder against the undergeared not just obliterate. once again proof with facts is neccessary otherwise your horrid opinion is disregarded.

why should anyone reading this thread take your advice when you cant even come up with a decent argument? you talk about garbage posts littering this forum and sadly it seems you are a contributer to said garbage posts.

learn your class before you give advice to help others.
07/24/2012 09:48 AMPosted by Kusari
learn your class before you give advice to help others.


Thats nice talk and all, but in full Ruthless with out any Heroic crutches you should do 4 to 5 million per Random BG if you just try to DPS - which obviously is completely dependent on your desire to be team-useful or just hulk-smash (given that its not just a landslide and you don't even really get to play win or lose).

Since we are talking about Hulk Smash, Oblit consistently offers me higher dps than spamming HB, I have to chose my targets, but Oblit, Frost Strike, and HB (procs) in the end just do more... again I think you are just assuming (!@# out of you of course) that I run up to fully cata geared Prot Warriors and spam obliterate... no.

And again I retain the ability to use HB if there is a group just like you would, the only thing that I miss out on is if there is a large amount of healing going on Necrotic strike becomes better... but, its just as good for me as it is in any other build if I need to use it... so its a non-issue.

You seriously have to be drunk or something if you think that you are going to do more with HB and necrocitic strike on a single target than just unloading on them with Oblit(glyphed)/Frost strike; unless my wow is broken or something its like 33% better (and even more so if you have outbreak ready)... I can see it in game, and the OP will too if he thinks for himself.

My point is that in a Random BG there is no need to waste points on random slows because everybody is putting them down and half the people are not going to get out of chains of ice anyway.. they just sit there while you obliterate/FS them to death. Strangulate on a 1 minute cool down is more than enough of a crutch in a Random for any DK.

I did not say it was better and I think that what your ego keeps screaming about... I said that it does more damage in a random BG... which it flat out does. Because none of the slows matter to me in Randoms so you just spec for your abilities to just do more.

This is not the arena, I'm not always trying to run down a Ranged or CC a Healer as if my life depended on it... slows are a non issue chains is perfectly MORE than enough. And, again I keep getting the feeling like you are not grasping I do accept the other build as generally better, but it DOES NOT do more dps (it's not L2P or any other nonsense you want to vomit up, its numbers).

And as a final summary... the oblit build lets me play exactly the same as you (oblit just does more damage) if I want, i just don't have the slows... which are unimportant in Random BGs where you are just trying to smash stuff, because other people are using slows/cc for you.

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