MoP raid releases will be staggered

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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It's funny people make fun of people for "Not having a life" for having time management skills.
Have you not raided at the start of an xpac before? Do you not have fun from all the rush of new and exciting things? Walking in to a raid really undergeared in an attempt to take down a boss? I don't know, those things are amazingly fun to me. To me, having a forced slow down break only takes away from that. I don't know why more of the US folks don't understand it, but EU has lots of posts referring to this kind of thing and the delay taking it out of the game.
Why were you walking into a raid undergeared?
I mean, did anyone who really considered themselves hardcore raiders actually step into normal mode t11 undergeared?
I'm pretty sure anyone in that category grinded the hell out of heroics in that first day or two, got nearly the best possible gear from it, capped various reputations, crafted as many epics as possible, and to some degree probably overgeared what the entry bosses were tuned for.

Unless you're talking about heroic mode, in which case nothing really changes. You'll still be doing that difficulty in heroic dungeon gear, with handful of normal mode pieces from your initial clear, putting your raid 10-20 item levels below what it's tuned for. You'll still find that thrill in defeating a raid boss that you're drastically undergeared for; an extra week of grinding heroics and reputations will not change that, it probably won't even be noticeable in that regard.
I have hope, but it is dwindling fast as MOP approaches. I am in the beta and I honestly can only answer anything in this manner. I think this expansion is going to end my World of Warcraft expierence. The leveling looks good, the gear is great "nice looking too' unlike the crap they spat out in cata (wtf is with the 6 foot tall shoulders blizz?), the dungeons have some nice very nice and uniuqe obstacles to overcome. My biggest problem is the characters. Stop messing with the specs and the abilities and the trees and for azeroth's sake stop screwing with the nerfing just becuase some whinny customer says I can't do this does not mean you need to nerf it. The Black Temple was great for the level characters and The Lich King (story and all) smoked Dragonsoul. Hots are pathetic and you are following this nerf principle. Leave the Talent trees alone and stop trying to balance the classes "they should NOT be balanced" thats the friggin point of them being Different. Leave the classes alone! If you continue down this road I seriously belive this may be the end for warcraft and I will so miss it if it does.

In the end my final parting thought you ask? I am sticking around until I am utterly done and that does mean purchasing my 3 family members there copies of the MOP expansion and getting through it. If ithey continue the nerfs and the class changes I am done and I have 400 guild members that mostly agree with what is going on right now.
08/01/2012 02:08 PMPosted by Telepathy
Or I have to plan time off 2 months in advance minimum and didn't have a chance to know they would change things until it has become to late to fix them?


Exactly how much advance notice should they have given to be reasonable?

The risk of preparing for something that far in advance is that situations change. That's the case no matter what you're doing - you could plan on going to Hawaii in 2 months, and there could be a tornado that day that delays your fight. Just because there was no tornado on the 25th of September the last 5 years doesn't mean there won't be one this year.

It may suck for you, but they have to decide these things based on what's best for the game. If you run or participate in a raid, you should know how hard it is to coordinate the schedules of even 25 players - there's no way to make 10 million happy. :)
08/01/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Ninjablaze
And what do you think you'll be doing Tuesday the Second? We aren't talking about a year, we aren't talking about 6 months we are talking about 7 days.


I really don't think anyone is that upset at the 7 days before vault opens. I find it irksome and wish it wasn't there but it really it's no more than a nuisance. The big frustration comes on the (now clearly defined and thank you for that!) four week delay between the rest of the tier being available. There simply is no reason for it.

Guilds that are capable of clearing normal vaults are capable of clearing more normal mode bosses in the later instances and shouldn't be forced to wait for an arbitrary stop point.
08/01/2012 02:08 PMPosted by Telepathy
Or I have to plan time off 2 months in advance minimum and didn't have a chance to know they would change things until it has become to late to fix them?


... they announced MoP literally a week ago to the day and raids hadn't even been tested in 25man yet... They also announced that they would be delaying raids, not 5 days later... again, sounds like you rushed it without thinking things through.

08/01/2012 02:08 PMPosted by Telepathy
I could do 1 down of football a day for a year and the game would last forever, that doesn't mean its fun to me. It could be to you, but that's not my style and I prefer it the normal way it's always been done.


You prefer the servers so unstable that you can't even log on during release (TBC/Wraith)? You prefer attunements that takes weeks upon months?

P.S. Terrible analogy. Wow is a Marathon. Once you complete it (the first time you clear everything), then you train up for the next marathon (re-farm for gear to make the next one easier). However instead of the Marathon being the 25th it's been moved back a week to the 2nd... But it still the exact same Marathon. The rules of the game aren't changing. What you are describing was like TotC where they gate a boss per week.
08/01/2012 02:14 PMPosted by Melenkor
Have you not raided at the start of an xpac before? Do you not have fun from all the rush of new and exciting things? Walking in to a raid really undergeared in an attempt to take down a boss? I don't know, those things are amazingly fun to me. To me, having a forced slow down break only takes away from that. I don't know why more of the US folks don't understand it, but EU has lots of posts referring to this kind of thing and the delay taking it out of the game.
Why were you walking into a raid undergeared?
I mean, did anyone who really considered themselves hardcore raiders actually step into normal mode t11 undergeared?
I'm pretty sure anyone in that category grinded the hell out of heroics in that first day or two, got nearly the best possible gear from it, capped various reputations, crafted as many epics as possible, and to some degree probably overgeared what the entry bosses were tuned for.

Unless you're talking about heroic mode, in which case nothing really changes. You'll still be doing that difficulty in heroic dungeon gear, with handful of normal mode pieces from your initial clear, putting your raid 10-20 item levels below what it's tuned for. You'll still find that thrill in defeating a raid boss that you're drastically undergeared for; an extra week of grinding heroics and reputations will not change that, it probably won't even be noticeable in that regard.


Yes. You do both, and if you have sufficient level 85 people on, then you go raid with what you've got. I went in 333 ilvl gear, into instances tuned for 346 and derided as "hard" my many. It's just something people do, and it's fine if they wait a day or two longer.

I haven't seen a QQ post from anyone clearing an instance on launch week anyway. So it's fine.
08/01/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Ninjablaze
I took time off of work because every single xpac before this it was necessary to high end raid.


And you see nothing wrong with this? If you wish to be competitive at a video game it should be necessary to take a week+ off from your real life... interesting point of view. I respectfully disagree.


To do anything at a competitive level, you need time to do it. How is does that not make sense? I don't need a week off to do it, I need about 3 days, at least before this. It's a choice I have made to play the game how I want to play it. It is nice I have the luxury to be able to play how I want to due to my job and money situation. I shouldn't have the option shut down to me if I choose to do it.

Do you not have fun from all the rush of new and exciting things?


Honestly? I do not. I find leveling and gearing at the beginning of every expansion to be the single most boring part of this game. It doesn't feel new. It feels like reskinned, reused content at its finest. Sure the environment is new but is picking a new kind of berry from a new kind of flower in a new zone really all that different? How about beating on a new monster with no abilities because he's a trash mob with the same sinister strike I've used for the past 7 years? It does not seem all that new to me.


That is perfectly fine that you don't like gaming how I do. People play this game in many different ways and that's good. However, shutting down one way of playing because some people don't like it isn't a good way to do things. I'm not trying to enforce a 10hour cap on leveling time or anything. Me leveling and raiding quickly has no effect on you at all. The new exciting stuff was more in reference to the raids than the leveling. Leveling is and always will be a means to an end for me.

Walking in to a raid really undergeared in an attempt to take down a boss?


And what do you think you'll be doing Tuesday the Second? We aren't talking about a year, we aren't talking about 6 months we are talking about 7 days. 7 days, 2 of which you will spend leveling and gearing, 2 of which you will spend sleeping (assuming you sleep the average amount) so really more like 3 days. This is of course assuming you do nothing but sleep the average amount and play WoW for the rest of the day everyday for the first 7 days the game is out. I'm sorry, its really not that big a deal. Get your alt to level 90. Grind your toon PvP gear since you like arena. Even without raiding there is still going to be a hell of a lot more to do than there is right now and if you can't wait 3 days after waiting almost 10 months in DS you need to be checked for selective ADD (probably not a real thing).


Why should I have to do things I don't like to do with my new expansion time rather than doing what I want to do, ie raiding. Yes, there are other things to do. No, I don't want to do any of them. I play to raid and that's about it. If I'm not raiding, I'm bettering my character to raid, if I'm not doing that, I'm probably not playing WoW. You are right that 7 days isn't a whole lot of time but it still doesn't make sense to delay it. If everything promised was delayed by 7 days a lot of people would be pissed. Hell, if Blizzard came out and said, "JK! The xpac release is Oct 2nd and not Sept 25th" I would assume lots would be pissed because they have their time set up for the 25th. I would actually prefer the xpac be delayed to Oct 2nd rather than releasing on Sept. 25th if it meant raids were open at the start.

I'll restate my issue here since people seem to think it's all about waiting 7 days. It has nothing to do with the time, 7 days isn't a big deal, it's Blizzard changing what they normally do that is annoying cause it's screwing with all of my setting up and planning.
The big frustration comes on the (now clearly defined and thank you for that!) four week delay between the rest of the tier being available. There simply is no reason for it.


It's exactly like what they did in BC only instead of annoying attunements that everyone hated, now you have a fixed schedule.
08/01/2012 02:22 PMPosted by Telepathy
Why should I have to do things I don't like to do with my new expansion time rather than doing what I want to do, ie raiding. Yes, there are other things to do. No, I don't want to do any of them


But you don't have to do anything you don't want. Just stop playing once you finish gearing up to raid.

08/01/2012 02:12 PMPosted by Asanenine
It's funny people make fun of people for "Not having a life" for having time management skills.


No, it's having no life. The people complaining are the ones who are taking off work to play a video game. That isn't time management, they aren't continuing with their lives, they are abandoning their lives to game 40+ hours a week.
I'll restate my issue here since people seem to think it's all about waiting 7 days. It has nothing to do with the time, 7 days isn't a big deal, it's Blizzard changing what they normally do that is annoying cause it's screwing with all of my setting up and planning.


I think presuming Blizzard normally does anything was pretty presumptuous on your part. From my experience, they normally don't tell you until the drop a raid until the day of.
Posted by Solistic
Just curious, why is raid finder being released a week after normal version?

This is a matter of striking a balance between preserving the feeling of guild progression and making the content accessible to players outside of organized guilds. We definitely want to see everyone have a chance to experience Mists of Pandaria raid content, so holding Raid Finder mode for a week feels like a reasonable window of time to accommodate players of all stripes.

08/01/2012 10:52 AMPosted by Penndamonium
For everything that thinks this is a good idea: Get ready to wait months for the second set of raids.

We thought our intent was made pretty clear in the Blizzard Insider article, as well as in my original post. But, if it’ll ease your concern, I’ll be more specific!

Raid dungeons Heart of Fear and Terrace of Endless Spring are scheduled to be released on normal difficulty four weeks after Mogu'shan Vaults has been opened. ;)


The posts that are complaining the most about this laddered release of raid content remind me of a petulant child throwing a tantrum because they have to wait an extra day to get something they want now. I think with the plan for MoP, Blizz is actually trying to balance out content for all players. Those people that are not satisfied with this compromise are just showing how they will never be satisfied.
Four weeks? WTF

And the Blizzard Devs think this is a good idea?


Week 1: Leveling, gearing
Week 2: Normal mode Vaults
Week 3/4: Heroic Vaults
Week 5: Heroic Vaults, Normal Mode Heart/Terrace.
Week 6: Everything is open

If people are clearing Heroic Vaults on week 3/4, it's probably undertuned. You'll have a constant stream of content to do from the start to the end, it just won't all be there from the start, so there's not so much new stuff to get done all the way from the start.

It's a good thing, even for the super-hardcore.
4 weeks seems very reasonable. specially if you need a decent amount of gear from vaults to progress to the next raid. No need to rush the content, that gives the devs more time to adjust and bug fix the heroic content.
Four weeks? WTF

And the Blizzard Devs think this is a good idea?


Week 1: Leveling, gearing
Week 2: Normal mode Vaults
Week 3/4: Heroic Vaults
Week 5: Heroic Vaults, Normal Mode Heart/Terrace.
Week 6: Everything is open

If people are clearing Heroic Vaults on week 3/4, it's probably undertuned. You'll have a constant stream of content to do from the start to the end, it just won't all be there from the start, so there's not so much new stuff to get done all the way from the start.

It's a good thing, even for the super-hardcore.


Although I usually agree with you I'm surprised you agree with Blizzard forcing their schedule onto players. Blizzard always talks about players doing things at their own pace and on their own time. Yet they come in here and tell a certain playerbase when they can do the content and give them a schedule for it. They use the excuse that players don't wish to be overwhelmed which I don't understand unless Blizzard is catering to 11 year olds who don't know time management.

Why is Blizzard all of a sudden dictating to the "hardcore" playerbase how they can spend their time when the expansion starts. If they want to spend 50 hours in one week that is THEIR choice not Blizzards. I don't plan to raid at the start so honestly it doesn't effect me, but in a logical discussion Blizzard is choosing to dictate how people can spend their time and that's not what they said they were going to do in Cataclysm with LFR when they want their playerbase to CHOOSE what they want to do and spend their time on the game how they want.

I don't even know why people are ok with this, sure it doesn't effect most of us but principles hold a lot of weight. If Blizzard ever dictated to me how to spend my time, then I simply wouldn't be playing anymore. Because it's their time and they can choose how to spend it, not Blizzard. It's their game yes, but getting involved in peoples time management is simply overstepping their bounds.
08/01/2012 02:42 PMPosted by Sensations
I don't even know why people are ok with this, sure it doesn't effect most of us but principles hold a lot of weight. If Blizzard ever dictated to me how to spend my time, then I simply wouldn't be playing anymore. Because it's their time and they can choose how to spend it, not Blizzard.


Pretty much how I feel about this topic.
Four weeks? WTF

And the Blizzard Devs think this is a good idea?


Week 1: Leveling, gearing
Week 2: Normal mode Vaults
Week 3/4: Heroic Vaults
Week 5: Heroic Vaults, Normal Mode Heart/Terrace.
Week 6: Everything is open

If people are clearing Heroic Vaults on week 3/4, it's probably undertuned. You'll have a constant stream of content to do from the start to the end, it just won't all be there from the start, so there's not so much new stuff to get done all the way from the start.

It's a good thing, even for the super-hardcore.


I think your weeks might be off, four weeks after vaults open would be week 6 of your chart, that's when normal hear/terrace would open.

Four weeks is just too long.
I would actually like to see LFR released a bit later, like maybe about the time the last two raids are opened (ie. four weeks?). This is coming from someone who would be on the LFR level. That way the regular difficulty raiders won't feel that they have to run both LFR and the normal raid at least straight off the bat. Less burnout for them that way.

Personally, I'd love it if Blizzard "gated" content the way they inadvertently did for C'thun. Release all three raids at once, but have the last two with every single boss being mathematically impossible until a "fix" is incorporated a few weeks later. That way the hardcore raiders won't feel things are being taken away from them, but they can't progress faster than the developers wish. It would also be a wonderful gold sink with all those repair bills, and hardcores would feel challenged to try and find a way to "beat the system".

But what do I know? I'm not a raider, though I've played for far too long (Kara and 10-man Naxx are as far as I've ever gone raid-wise. XD).
Seems fine to me.

September 25th: MoP launches
October 2nd: Normal Vaults available
October 9th: LFR available, Heroic Vaults available (to those that cleared normal)
October 30th: Normal Heart of Fear and Terrace of Endless Springs launches
November 6th: LFR available for HoF/ToES, Heroic available for HoF/ToES (to those that cleared normal).

Is this correct?

A month seems long but I can't certainly say with a straight face that I'll be bored. Unless of course Heroic vaults is really easy. Even if it's really easy and I unrealistically clear it two weeks after it's launched, I still wouldn't be bored. Most raids that I clear don't instantly become boring, they usually take a month or two.

I have a question though as it's a mere assumption. The Heart of Fear and Terrace of Endless Springs is half a tier above normal vaults right? Likewise HoF and ToES hard modes are half a tier above Vaults?

If the above is the case we will always have a reason to go back to Vaults in this tier, especially if there are a few items which are BiS (no alternative in the other raid). Which I think is fine.

I kind of like this sort of staggering because it doesn't obsolete the content in the same tier but it also gives you a bit of breathing room. Presumably we like other guilds would have made progress in MV for that month, and while MV isn't obsoleted it's more or less our farm raid we do before diving into the progression which is a half a tier higher.

I can certainly see complaints about a month being too long, but it personally won't effect me that much. I had a blast with Firelands (7 bosses) for at least a month after I cleared, I doubt I'll notice the wait for the other 10 bosses. /shrug

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