Fire or arcane best dps spec 5.0.4?

Mage
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The one with Rank 1 frostbolt.
I tried both fire and arcane yesterday, and sad to say, I'm having trouble with the fire mechanic, and picked up the arcane one easily. I have been fire ever since I hit top level in Wrath, and am disappointed in how confusing it is, not to mention it feels clunky to me. Arcane was smoother yesterday than I thought it would be. I want to stay fire, had always loved it over the other two specs (I dislike frost, won't even play it in pvp). I'm not loving this 'guaranteed crit to force pyro' idea. Doesn't feel as free flowing as it was. (Yes, I actually loved the RNG in Cata)

I think I might need some help here, because I would love to stay a fire mage. Anyone know what I could be doing wrong? (I'm not even sure if I'm gemming right either, seeing as how things have changed :( )


How is your rotation? If you look at my guide at the bottom, I have a rotation for everyone placed.

It should feel much more free flowing.

You can also cast FFB instead of FBall if you glyph for FFB.
recount is working now
08/29/2012 03:08 PMPosted by Ennis
How is your rotation? If you look at my guide at the bottom, I have a rotation for everyone placed.


That's the thing, I'm not sure exactly -what- I'm supposed to be doing anymore. Used to be I'd open up with a LB and a FB, hit ignite (sometimes keeping it on cd), Scorch if I needed to move, Pyro when procced, then combustion when I had eveything lined up (on bosses only). Now I don't know if I'm supposed to always try and force a pyro, or is there something else I'm missing. I have never been this confused when Wrath transitioned to Cata. Please feel free to armory me, and let me know what I may be doing wrong.
Played Arcane last night up in Heroic DS10 up to Ultraxion. I got the same results as Mistwynd. Attempting a burn phase is useless, you oom too quick, and the fact that you get more damage out of Arcane Barrage really kills your dps.

My rotation was a little more random though, I didn't go with 6x AB, 2x AM, ABarr.
From the start of a fight it was: 6x AB, Abarr, 4x AB(note: 10 AB to get 10x Stolen Time), Cooldowns, 2x AM, ABarr. After that it was just a mix of AB/AM when it was up to get to 6, then ABarr.

The damage did feel low overall though, regardless.

I'm going to try frost for the last 3 bosses tonight. Going with Mastery gear.
08/29/2012 03:18 PMPosted by Shahira
How is your rotation? If you look at my guide at the bottom, I have a rotation for everyone placed.


That's the thing, I'm not sure exactly -what- I'm supposed to be doing anymore. Used to be I'd open up with a LB and a FB, hit ignite (sometimes keeping it on cd), Scorch if I needed to move, Pyro when procced, then combustion when I had eveything lined up (on bosses only). Now I don't know if I'm supposed to always try and force a pyro, or is there something else I'm missing. I have never been this confused when Wrath transitioned to Cata. Please feel free to armory me, and let me know what I may be doing wrong.


You're a fire mage who is having trouble with fire spec in 5.04?

I'm not quite sure why that is. The rotation seems to be virtually identical to pre-patch as far as I can tell. Main difference is there's no need to put up scorch debuff anymore since that's gone. And combustion is on a much shorter cooldown so you get many more combusts off.

Also, the new on-screen hot streak hud symbols work great and make it much eaiser to time pyroblast and combustion.
08/29/2012 04:56 PMPosted by Mistwynd


That's the thing, I'm not sure exactly -what- I'm supposed to be doing anymore. Used to be I'd open up with a LB and a FB, hit ignite (sometimes keeping it on cd), Scorch if I needed to move, Pyro when procced, then combustion when I had eveything lined up (on bosses only). Now I don't know if I'm supposed to always try and force a pyro, or is there something else I'm missing. I have never been this confused when Wrath transitioned to Cata. Please feel free to armory me, and let me know what I may be doing wrong.


You're a fire mage who is having trouble with fire spec in 5.04?

I'm not quite sure why that is. The rotation seems to be virtually identical to pre-patch as far as I can tell. Main difference is there's no need to put up scorch debuff anymore since that's gone. And combustion is on a much shorter cooldown so you get many more combusts off.

Also, the new on-screen hot streak hud symbols work great and make it much eaiser to time pyroblast and combustion.


It's similar but not identical since you need to watch for Heating Up to use Inferno Blast for Pyros...not to mention Inferno Blast spreads DoT's if you have the glyph. Plus waiting on the "massive" ignite for combustion is a DpS loss since it's on such a short cooldown.
I tried both fire and arcane yesterday, and sad to say, I'm having trouble with the fire mechanic, and picked up the arcane one easily. I have been fire ever since I hit top level in Wrath, and am disappointed in how confusing it is, not to mention it feels clunky to me. Arcane was smoother yesterday than I thought it would be. I want to stay fire, had always loved it over the other two specs (I dislike frost, won't even play it in pvp). I'm not loving this 'guaranteed crit to force pyro' idea. Doesn't feel as free flowing as it was. (Yes, I actually loved the RNG in Cata)

I think I might need some help here, because I would love to stay a fire mage. Anyone know what I could be doing wrong? (I'm not even sure if I'm gemming right either, seeing as how things have changed :( )


How is your rotation? If you look at my guide at the bottom, I have a rotation for everyone placed.

It should feel much more free flowing.

You can also cast FFB instead of FBall if you glyph for FFB.


bottom of what?
08/29/2012 04:56 PMPosted by Mistwynd


That's the thing, I'm not sure exactly -what- I'm supposed to be doing anymore. Used to be I'd open up with a LB and a FB, hit ignite (sometimes keeping it on cd), Scorch if I needed to move, Pyro when procced, then combustion when I had eveything lined up (on bosses only). Now I don't know if I'm supposed to always try and force a pyro, or is there something else I'm missing. I have never been this confused when Wrath transitioned to Cata. Please feel free to armory me, and let me know what I may be doing wrong.


You're a fire mage who is having trouble with fire spec in 5.04?

I'm not quite sure why that is. The rotation seems to be virtually identical to pre-patch as far as I can tell. Main difference is there's no need to put up scorch debuff anymore since that's gone. And combustion is on a much shorter cooldown so you get many more combusts off.

Also, the new on-screen hot streak hud symbols work great and make it much eaiser to time pyroblast and combustion.


You know I am not sure whether it is an oceanic latency problem once again rearing it's head, but raiding last night Heating Up was almost useless. By the time it showed up on screen 4 out of every 5 casts there was not enough time to insert the Inferno Blast before the next fireball had already landed. I found myself actually stopcasting at times trying to put the IB in which is a little pointless. In the end, I had to almost ignore Heating Up entirely as trying to work with the buff did nothing but cause headaches and irritation.
All encounters with heavy movements are a pox to mages thanks to the movement restrictive level 90 talents of which our dps is balanced on maximum upkeep. The shield is an exception with an exceptional gimmick necessary to not feel like we just lost a big chunk of our mobility in PvE.

So enjoy whatever you can do in 5.0.4 because it's going to get a lot less fun in MoP.
08/29/2012 04:56 PMPosted by Mistwynd
Also, the new on-screen hot streak hud symbols work great and make it much eaiser to time pyroblast and combustion.


I tend to ignore any HUD things that come up onscreen, which makes this new 'Heating Up' (lame term, imo) hard to see. I'm busy looking other places, such as where bad fire is. It's not as noticable to me as say, my frost dk's HUD alerts. There needs to be some improvement here, because imo, it's just hard to see, and I'm missing the Heating Ups.

08/29/2012 05:08 PMPosted by Peppeppe
Plus waiting on the "massive" ignite for combustion is a DpS loss since it's on such a short cooldown.


This is what I wasn't sure of. I noticed instead of one, you can get two Heating Ups? Is it better to wait for the second, or is it better to use it as soon as it comes up?
I have been Arcane for some time now and have tried the spec since the patch came in.

At level 85, it is really way behind Fire and Frost. Even with the right rotation, the spells feels like they are not doing enough damage. Will have to go Fire for now and see if Arcane is worth adopting at level 90.

But I have a feeling I will stay Fire and a lot of people will do so. Blizzard seem to have killed the Arcane spec, at least for now.
I became fire a few months into Cata, couldn't quite get the hang of it, so switched back to arcane. Then a couple of months ago, I switched back to fire and stuck it out. Dps was way higher than arcane, as everyone knows. But after 5.0, the 2xcrit-must for insta-pyro for me was garbage. And I had well over 30%. And having to watch for like, 3 different things is annoying. I'm arcane now and am pulling on average about 32k.
i don't really care much, play what you like the best~
08/29/2012 05:43 PMPosted by Shahira
Also, the new on-screen hot streak hud symbols work great and make it much eaiser to time pyroblast and combustion.


I tend to ignore any HUD things that come up onscreen, which makes this new 'Heating Up' (lame term, imo) hard to see. I'm busy looking other places, such as where bad fire is. It's not as noticable to me as say, my frost dk's HUD alerts. There needs to be some improvement here, because imo, it's just hard to see, and I'm missing the Heating Ups.

Plus waiting on the "massive" ignite for combustion is a DpS loss since it's on such a short cooldown.


This is what I wasn't sure of. I noticed instead of one, you can get two Heating Ups? Is it better to wait for the second, or is it better to use it as soon as it comes up?


The key to getting your second guarenteed crit with Inferno Blast for Hot Streak procs comes down to Missle Travel Time and your relative distance to the boss.

For instance, if you are chain casting Fireball and get a crit on the first one, your second Fireball will already be halfway casted before you see the crit. However, since Fireball has a Missle Travel time and Inferno Blast doesn't, once the second fireball finishes casting, a instantly queued Inferno Blast will hit the boss before that second Fireball reaches the target. This will create a Hot Streak proc, enabling a instant cast Pyroblast.

If you are dealing with Oceanic Latency (which I myself do suffer from), you find the window between getting the Inferno Blast off after the second fireball hits the target will be greatly lessened by the distance you are from the target. However, I don't believe this should be a problem as long as you queue the Inferno Blast up as soon as it is clear that the first Fireball actually crit.

This situation is completely different if you are moving and Scorch spamming, as both spells have no travel time. Because of this, either get a stopcasting macro for Inferno Blast when you are casting Scorch, or just cast Inferno Blast off CD and pray for godly RNG (which every fire mage worth his salt is very used to doing neway).
Arcane is just fine if you follow the new rotation outlined in Icy Veins. There is no longer a Burn phase for Arcane, so anyone using the old burn phase rotation is going to go OOM very quickly. Just ran the LFR tonight to see how things were and only used Evocation twice the entire time to self heal. I had no mana issues. I haven't used Fire since Alysrazor, so I can't speak to the new combustion and the rng of the new fire.
Fire is far superior single target to the other two specs currently.
I hope arcane will be good at 90, it may be a boring spec, but it did the most damage, and that's what really matters. I've never been fire, so I will have to try it out before MoP is released. Anyone know some good places to try out these new talents?
To put things into perspective: at level 90, in T14H gear, the difference between the three specs is simming within a total range of less than 2%, with total DPS numbers in the 125k - 130k area. My impression from dev discussion is that Blizzard's internal models put the specs even closer than that, and a good chunk of that 2% is caused by differences in the set bonus values. Their real-use data — logs from raid testing in beta — also shows the three specs performing very competitively with each other.

T14N results are similarly tightly grouped.

Things may be different for the next few weeks, but at level 90, the performance of the three specs is so close that it's simply absurd to talk about there being a "best" spec. Human error and RNG will completely obscure the tiny difference inherent to the specs themselves. There will always be specific encounters that play more to the strengths of one spec than another, but even those differences should be quite a bit smaller than they used to be.

In short: given the choice between five minutes spent discussing on a forum which spec you should be using, and spending those five minutes honing your skills with the spec you enjoy the most, I think most players would find the latter option produces better results.


I would love it if this were true. Would be nice to play just any spec i want. But i fear this will not actually happen. When we all hit 90 i'll start hearing in trade chat and guilds a particular spec thats the best. On the websites and forums it will be revealed that one spec stands above them all. Then i'll see all the best mages in all the best guilds switch to that particular spec. Then to top it all off I'll see raid leaders judge certain people good or bad based on the spec their in. And i'll begin to see people invited or not invited to the raid based on that. This is the way its always been, and i'm sure it will continue to be that way.

Here's why. Over the course of a long raid or boss fight, many attack rotations, if a spec just has a tiny bit more dps it will addup and in the end it will show on the dps totals. At the end of the boss fight and at the end of the night it will show. I dont know if its truly possible to balance out 2 or 3 specs so they will equal out at the end of the boss fight or night. But it all adds up and raid leaders are picky about this. Most guilds are doign 10 man raids these days and if a mage comes along that can beat my dps then it doesnt look good for me.
08/29/2012 07:14 AMPosted by Lhivera
n short: given the choice between five minutes spent discussing on a forum which spec you should be using, and spending those five minutes honing your skills with the spec you enjoy the most, I think most players would find the latter option produces better results.


This^

Focus on which spec is the most fun, don't worry about damage right now.

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