5.2 Competitive Fire PvP (in progress)

Mage
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The idea here is to optimize my damage in the small window of opportunity you have to create as much pressure as possible. The crit level is because of:

100% crit on shatter = [2 * (1.5 * x)] + 50 [1.5 multiplier comes from the passive ability, Critical Mass]
100% crit on shatter = 16.67%


While this all adds up, Fire mages aren't shattering nearly as often as Frost mages do. It seems like setting up damage outside of a Deep Freeze would be extremely difficult with such low Crit. If you're relying on DF, you also need to consider the strength of haste over mastery since you can get more spells into that window.


Ive gotta agree with this. Yes the crit adds up in a shatter but it seems that the way fire plays right now a lot of our damage is coming outside of shatter, with heating up procs --> pyroblast. I dont think it would be smart to be too depend on shatter...especially as fire. Dont get me wrong though shatter is obviously very strong for a fire mage. I just think it would be wise to get higher crit for those outside shatter situations seeing how fire mages play atm.

Also I have to disagree with you on blazing speed. Compared to temporal and ice barrier it really falls behind. The reason for this is because it doesn't provide any real damage mitigation besides running away. Which I guess is sort of a form of mitigation. You can't stay in fights as long as if you had temporal or ice barrier. I'm sure you know sustainability is the key many times. As you alluded too though temporal is very strong in the hands of skilled players and will probably be the best option in a competitive bg setting if one knows how to use it. Ice barrier would be a close second despite the fact that it can be purged. Its a fast reapplication given the 25second cd and a huge absorb. I wouldn't be surprised seeing some competitive pvpers using this spell. Its forsure the spell to take in a non-competitive scene imo.
You're right in arguing both points Brewslee. I have adjusted my playstyle quite a bit and haven't taken the time to update the original post.

In short before the edit:
Ice Barrier rulez
Temporal Shield is meh right now
Crit is far superior although haste is crucial because we lack as much instant CC as we used to have.
Nether Tempest > Living Bomb for fire now?

Nether Tempest > Living Bomb for fire now?

I personally think Nether Tempest is better then Living bomb.
So I'd agree with that!
More single target and multi dot damage.(From what I've seen)
The only benefit Living Bomb is just the burst from the explosion if it crits..So if you get it during your burst in a deepfreeze.
I've been playing around with a lot of different Reforging set ups, and I just don't see how haste or mastery will beat out crit. The notion is that crit doesn't add to damage during deep freeze, but I don't think haste or mastery increase our deep freeze burst by much either.
You're right in arguing both points Brewslee. I have adjusted my playstyle quite a bit and haven't taken the time to update the original post.

In short before the edit:
Ice Barrier rulez
Temporal Shield is meh right now
Crit is far superior although haste is crucial because we lack as much instant CC as we used to have.
Nether Tempest > Living Bomb for fire now?


from the numbers ive seen and from what ive seen of other people testing all the bombs seem to be around the same at 90 with maybe a 1-2% difference. For single target that is. Its really preference.
You're right in arguing both points Brewslee. I have adjusted my playstyle quite a bit and haven't taken the time to update the original post.

In short before the edit:
Ice Barrier rulez
Temporal Shield is meh right now
Crit is far superior although haste is crucial because we lack as much instant CC as we used to have.
Nether Tempest > Living Bomb for fire now?


from the numbers ive seen and from what ive seen of other people testing all the bombs seem to be around the same at 90 with maybe a 1-2% difference. For single target that is. Its really preference.


I did around 200 test with Living Bomb And Nether Tempest at 85 not 90 and found Nether Tempest doing a lot more damage unless Living Bomb explosion crit. Does that mean at the end of next X-pac Nether Tempest will be doing more?


from the numbers ive seen and from what ive seen of other people testing all the bombs seem to be around the same at 90 with maybe a 1-2% difference. For single target that is. Its really preference.


I did around 200 test with Living Bomb And Nether Tempest at 85 not 90 and found Nether Tempest doing a lot more damage unless Living Bomb explosion crit. Does that mean at the end of next X-pac Nether Tempest will be doing more?


it should all even out under cast time/gcd conditions. I could be wrong though but this is just from what I've seen
Nether tempest is quite devastating if you apply it on several targets in close proximity. It makes me feel like I'm a moobkin running around with Starfall going at all times. I guess your choice will come down to strategy. I don't run simulations or anything so my instincts are just from feel
This needs to move upwards.
Vote sticky/like/etc
I originally misread Invocation! I thought it only reduced the cooldown of Evocation by 10 seconds. I'm a nimrod!!! It reduces the cooldown to 10 seconds.

Potentially devastating and incredibly useful when your healer eats a big fat CC

Enjoy the leveling race tonight. I'll be that fat slow kid catching up in the background. Slow and steady wins the race, right!?
Still probably not your best choice for the fact you have to complete the whole 8 second evocation. And thats the only way you can get your 40% damamge increase. No team will let you get a whole 8 second cast off with all the crazy things in arena now.

It may have its time. Becuase we will have a heal. And it sounds awesome on paper and it seems delious but in actuality I don't see it being that good maybe in like 2v2 mage rogue where reseting is somthing thats needed but even then rogues are really good kill targets now so idk. But in order for me to get my burst of 40% damage increase I have to stand there hard casting 8 seconds of evocation than idk.

Its weird.

Good Luck to you leveling. I am also extremly slow and I don't ever have time anyway. I'm on an alliance dominated server as a hordie so I shall be doing BGs and Dungons :)
Thankyou Pyrokinz! I wish you luck too. I honestly just don't have the time to go nuts.

I had the same thought originally about Invocation. Who on earth is going to ignore an entire Evocation cast? Or when do you even have the time to do it? But hey! Get interrupted on a fire school? Get interrupted on a frost and fire school? Want to eat an interrupt on arcane just to do it?

Seems like a win win situation. Thought invoking and strategically implemented!
Well its a 40% heal after casting an 8 second thing. Unlike regular evocation where every tick heals you. If this was like that than that'd be amazing but it's not.

Yeah I agree thats probably the only time you would use it. So 99.9% of the time IW will be better me thinks.
my instinct is to go NT for DoT cleave or FB for burst (depending on your style, but personally I'd go with NT) for fire, so you can have something to do while locked out - something that is not hard to do to a spec reliant on scorch.
frost bomb as fire spec is still awesome
so what are peoples thoughts on blazing speed at 90? seems like everyone is picking incanter's ward also. also curious on temporal shield, how well that might keep me alive if i'm jumped by a bunch of people in a bg...hmm
Gratz on getting this sticky'd :)

Blazing speed is cool and all but I can only see it being used in Raiding. Right now the damage IB aborbs is to good to pass up, I can see considering the Temporal Shield but its just meh not as reliable.

Incanters Ward is nice and reliable and if nothing else is the best choice because of process of elimination. Rune of power. Okay lets be honest we will never take RoP. Invcoation. Keep in mind you have to be able to hard cast the 8 second invcoation to get the bonous damage which can be really tough. and those momments where you want burst damage you can't just go cast Invo and than go hard. Incanters Ward just works well.
Sorry in advance for the long post! I'll put a TL;DR at the end.

So I've been testing a whole lot of different talent combinations and have decided that temporal shield is absolutely incredibly if you can anticipate huge damage coming your way, which is usually accompanied by your healer being CC'd. With the cauterize talent what I found was that if I were being dropped fast I would activate temporal shield, and if I didn't die then that's great, but if I did then i'd be healed to 50% hp (which I ice block immediately) healing for the remaining gap in health inside.

That said, I have decided that at lvl 90 my shield of choice is ice barrier, simply because you want to be mitigating damage for as long as possible, and instead of waiting for a good time to use temporal shield you can run around knowing that you have the security of a huge damage sponge around you. Oh, and with alter time you can pop ice barrier before taking huge damage, lose the shield (and some health) and then pop back to having ice barrier and hopefully have wasted the enemy's burst CD's..

As for bombs, nether tempest I find is really nice but all of the options are awesome. I use living bomb at the moment but found that frost bomb was intense because of the huge burst.

Currently trying out glyph of fire-blast and it's not worth it (I think spell steal is more viable, because you just spam a healer, get healed, and gain potential healing buffs.. good habits for everyone).

For level 90 I am using Incanter's Ward because you pop that up before getting blasted, you absorb a lot of damage, you get a significant damage bonus and it has a low CD. In BG's right now I get focussed a lot because fire mages are known to be devastating, which means the constant stream of damage means that anything that benefits from that is going to win.

Invocation is no deal, and rune of power is obviously a PvE thing.

A typical strategy of mine at the moment is to try and build up a pyroblast proc with one stack of heating up. If I have frost nova and DF up I will use Alter Time, frost nova and DF (using the no GCD glyph of deep freeze); launch the first pyro, which will crit giving you the opportunity to blast a second one in succession (they will stack ignite, which will be absolutely enormous). At this time Alter time will take me back, and you'll have your pyro and heating up back. Before casting it again, use combustion (probably burning for 15 - 20k dps with that) and then hit them again with pyro and inferno blast to secure another proc. They're no longer frozen, but you can deal a stupid amount of damage in a very short period of time if you a) get lucky, b) have your cd's ready, and c) play your cards correctly. This is a very offensive use of alter time.

I'm still trying to work on this routine, but I'm getting the hang of it. I'd like to hear what other fire mages are currently doing.

TL;DR:

1. Ice Barrier > Temporal Shield (situationally dependent, use defensively with alter time)
2. All the bombs are great, and depends what you're doing. Living bomb is only useful if lots of people are around, and nether tempest is great for a couple of players close by because you don't need to wait for it to tick off (high damage is dealt constantly). Frost bomb is huge burst and slowing effect.
3. Incanter's Ward because you're generally always going to be taking damage. You get two huge benefits from this, absorption and damage bonus.
4. Use alter time in clever ways to deal huge burst (with pyro blast proc) or defensively using ice barrier.

I am going to stack crit to 30% (with Molten Shield) and then go for haste (haste is going to be a necessary stat for quick CC, especially now that RoF requires casting and also because frost jaw is casting if you select that instead).
Incanter's Ward's Aborbtion is so minimal.

to put it in to perspective. IW at level 90 aborbs less than Mana Shield at level 85 in cata.

It wasn't met for the Aborb. In fact it was nerfed durring beta because it was to hard to pop with how much it was absorbing. Its used for damage so its nice when you can control that easyier I guess.

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