5.2 Competitive Fire PvP (in progress)

Mage
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Updating here, it seems that the Pyro change to 3s cd was dropped by the devs. Check thread http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7004692423
Bloo, do you have any suggestions for using Blazing speed in PvP? I think it's my favorite of the 3, but I feel in BGs, I'm always getting blown up because I'm lacking barriers.
Outside of the obvious don't let them hit you sort of response?

Play with a healer/DPS that compliments your playstyle.
Don't expect to live 3,4,8 or whatever vs 1.
Grab some other talents that will help you mitigate the damage you find yourself being unable to avoid. As an example, I play with frostjaw most of the time and use Glyph of Ice Block as a way to generate an extra nova.

The best defense is a good offense, right? Set things up so its in your favor!

@Aowyn
Hoorah for the pyro change! I think the 4 second deep freeze will be more than enough to lower the burst potential.
Question. Why fire mages get living bomb over nether tempest? Nether tempest does more damage, especially versus dispel (half of living bomb damage is from explosion which doesnt happen when dispelled).
people lean towards living bomb because of its 1 second cooldown and better aoe damage, yea it can be dispel off but that's a wasted cooldown for a healer imo. my only guess in why living bomb does no damage anymore when dispel because smart players would abuse that to break their partners out of cc. BUT yet again they are adding glyph of discreet magic so i'm lost for words on that. i really hate bombs. worst idea they ever gave mages
How have things been treating everyone? I find the game challenging and fun up until someone kills me from full HP in less than 2 seconds.

I don't know if it is supposed to be amusing or not but, seeing that happen is a little whack. I'm actually tempted to play with cauterize vs. the power overhwelming teams. Temporal Shield is looking mighty tempting too as long as you can cover it up from the ridiculous amount of easy dispels now.

Extra tid bits:
Ignite damage is not instantly applied following a fire spell. There's a slight delay so hold off on using Combustion momentarily. If I had to guess, this is in the 0.1 second range.

If you know damage is going to be insane (haha warrior feral druid frost bomb like), Alter time prior to going into Ice Block so that Hypothermia is erased and you can Cold Snap and Ice Block again. You lose a few seconds on your initial Ice Block but, good chances the warrior will be casting Shattering Throw anyways. Double block the nonsense!
Haven't really had trouble in 3's getting bursted down.Usually just predict it. I've had troubles getting cast off though lately. Was thinking vs certain teams of trying out blazing speed. I haven't really tried it yet though. Getting CC off has been harder then ever.
Hey Bloo,

I follow your posts here and there whenever I consider playing fire, with 1-2 second bursts seemingly deciding most games now, how are you coping as fire setting these moments up? Dragons breath seems rather handy, but almost having to grab scorch preventing the PoM -> Rings I've become so accustomed to in frost scoring me a 21-1 with a Rdruid in 2s, seems like a rather big loss.

Also, a side note, In RBGs and etc ( I don't really RBG often ) do you find it rather annoying having a large part of your burst revolving around guaranteed crits? Meaning frozen targets, Meaning as soon as another DpS strikes what your hoping to kill, it wrecks you entire game plan? As frost, Fingers of Frost kinda Lee-ways this alot in the big group clusters.

Extra Notes: Are you crit softcapping @ 25% then PvP powering, Or going all out crit for out-of-nova pyro's, I can't seem to decide.

Keep up the good work man :) you should update the main article :P
Fire definitely has some scary burst potential in a deep freeze however, you still create a lot of your pressure from constantly doing damage. It's all the same really. Frost just has a tendency to do WAY TOO much damage with Frost Bomb. And you can't compare yourself to that. It's the same idea as melee classes comparing themselves to a Warrior. Everyone knows that some things are just way too strong.

I see fire mages playing without Scorch and just scratch my head... I think they are heavily relying on their partner to kill something at that rate. That or just base their entire game-play, especially kills, around a long cooldown. That's not how I play or ever want to play.

My role in RBG's is different than what most players would expect. I'll have to spend some time laying it out in the original essay I wrote.

I've glanced through the content several times and feel pretty good about all of it. I'll try and condense it some though.

My stats right now go as follows:
6.0% hit > 16.67%crit > haste >>>>>>>>>>> mastery

I don't stack any sort of gems because it doesn't make enough of a difference. I'd rather have the most stats possible.

Blue = PvP power > PvP power + hit?
Red = Intellect
Yellow = Intellect and PvP resilience or Intellect and Crit if you need it.

My stats right now go as follows:
6.0% hit > 16.67%crit > haste >>>>>>>>>>> mastery


You can go around 11% crit , just rebuff before you deep.
Also, no clue how you do any damage outside of deep. I do literally none, but around 300-400k in a deep. I just revolve all my damage setting up nice deeps. Not the funnest, but funner then frost. =/.

You can go around 11% crit , just rebuff before you deep.
Also, no clue how you do any damage outside of deep. I do literally none, but around 300-400k in a deep. I just revolve all my damage setting up nice deeps. Not the funnest, but funner then frost. =/.


YIKES. That's what I mean by 16.67%. I kind of assume that Arcane Intellect is always going.

I think almost every class is designed that way right now... Wet noodle damage then BOOM KAPOW BURST.
So, I'm planning on playing fire this season - and I'm experimenting with some burst combos... and it seems like there are a lot of convoluted ways of dropping damage. So I've been experimenting and would appreciate some discussion of:

Thought #1
So the first thing I was trying was nether bomb. It's instant and I thought it could put out decent dot-cleave pressure. For burst:
I'd generally work around nova/deep freeze.

Get 1 heating up, Frostnova, Fireball, Deepfreeze, Pyroblast, Inferno Blast (DF ends), Pyroblast. Maybe follow with combustion?

That's like 2 crit big hits: fireball, pyroblast. With a regular pyroblast to follow. So in units of 'big hits': 5 whammies

I liked the damage of this setup, but outside of duels there's no way I can do that opening fireball on a frost nova. Dispels and teammate damage just kills that nova too quick. In fact, just doing fnova-deep is crazy hard w/out the DF glyph.

So, in practice, I think that may have to become:
Heating up x2 > Nova>DF (glyphed)>Fireball>Pyroblast> (DF ends) Pyroblast

So: still, 5 whammies

That still requires a fireball cast... which maybe I should replace with a scorch... which is faster. You can actually get enough haste where pyroblast #2 falls into the DF. That lets you then follow with Infernoblast for another Pyro outside of deep. Then maybe a combustion... it wouldn't crit, but you'd probably have a really nice ignite rolling.

We'd replace a crit fireball with a crit pyroblast, and basically guarantee another pyroblast to follow. So 5 whammies still but a little better than before?

Thought #2
Frost Bomb:
So, I started looking at using frostbomb. It does hit pretty hard. It's like a 2nd Pyroblast. Which you can stack on top of the things you were already doing. This opens us up to doing little mini-bursts off of frost nova.

We can get Heating up x2, Drop a bomb. Then nova a little later. Then throw a pyroblast so it hits the frost nova at the same time the bomb is going off. Which I think is a pretty easy to setup 1-2 whammy.

This is where it kinda starts getting crazy...
Or you can go for some bigger burst in DF:
Get Heating up x2, Frost Bomb, Nova, DF, Pyroblast, Combustion, Frost bomb Explosion, <DF Ends> Inferno Blast, Pyroblast.

And then you start to think, we'll if I'm dropping the combustion into the DF, maybe I should glyph it so it hits harder. And then it's like getting 3 big hits into a DF, w/out glyphing. But then, once again it's hard to get the nova->df in the context of an arena match with other people doing damage.

7 whammies

So maybe you should glyph DF which gets another move in there. But then the timing doesn't work out on the Ice Bomb any more. Because he's only in nova for 4 seconds and the bomb takes like 5 to go off. So then you need to glyph Inferno Blast. So the extra move that gets thrown in is just a blast.
Heating up x2, Frostbomb, Nova,DF(glyphed), Pyroblast, Inferno Blast, Frost Bomb Explosion, Combustion, <DF Ends>, Pyroblast

7 whammies again.

You need that Inferno Blast to blow the bomb, so if you used it to get your 2nd heating up proc, you'll have to wait a few seconds. And now we've committed a combustion, inferno blast, and Deep Freeze glyph to this. I really hate giving up evocation and sheep glyphs. And this all still requires using a nova to get the ball rolling.

It's starting to seem kinda cumbersome. And we're now giving up using combustion for it's stun effect. I know that we can technically get crazier with Altar Time... but sometimes what we 'can' do is nowhere near what's feasible in reality.

So what does everyone think of the ways we can burst?
-
@Clay
I'll put some more thought and effort into a response when I get a chance.

I've tested the idea of Frost Bomb for additional burst and it's not too shabby. You can set it up during Frost Nova or Dragon's Breath and not have any consequences. I shifted away from it though to maintain the advantage of doing damage while moving. Perhaps I'll give it a whirl again this week.

You'll also sacrifice on 10% damage with Pyroblast! if you fail to land the Frost Bomb. So it's a quite a toss up. But hey, interrupt my frost spells! See what I care!!!

In general, I think the easiest way to be threatening during a Deep Freeze revolves around having a Pyroblast! either ready, or in the process of being generated going into it. There's obviously better setups but in realistic situations, you won't really ever see them.

Pyroblast! built going into Deep Freeze > Scorch or Fireball or Inferno Blast and Pyroblast! > Pyroblast! and Combustion > Inferno Blast (Deep Freeze ends) > Pyroblast!

3 whammies, a Combustion that could be a whammy, and 1 more after the madness. Not perfect, but at least realistic. There's only one spell that can be locked out in that window.

Glyphing Combustion is what I'm leaning towards. It turns out to be a nasty crit on the whammy level during a Deep Freeze.

I'll add more later. Have to run
@Clay
I'll put some more thought and effort into a response when I get a chance.

I've tested the idea of Frost Bomb for additional burst and it's not too shabby. You can set it up during Frost Nova or Dragon's Breath and not have any consequences. I shifted away from it though to maintain the advantage of doing damage while moving. Perhaps I'll give it a whirl again this week.

You'll also sacrifice on 10% damage with Pyroblast! if you fail to land the Frost Bomb. So it's a quite a toss up. But hey, interrupt my frost spells! See what I care!!!


you say that you shifted away from it to maintain advantage of dps on the move but realistically living bomb is not going to make or break anything - burst is everything, especially as fire, and you're still entirely reliant on heating up/pyro procs for actual damage. Adding frost bomb into the mix adds a 2nd school that is a threat and lets you do pants on head retarded damage in a deep since you're at bare minimum going into it with a bomb + pyro if you setup correctly.
I totally agree with you Springload.

You make it sound like casting a spell stationary and also ramping up a Pyroblast! before getting something frozen to Deep Freeze is easy though.

I guess Frostjaw would help quite a bit with this. So would Presence of Mind if you want to go that route.

I spend a lot of time changing glyphs and talents every game. Perhaps this setup will become a new addition to the arsenal.
honestly I'm still on the fence about it too...

I know it's not "easy" to pull it off, but relatively more challenging to setup for a huge amount of damage is worth it to me. PoM ring is still really strong but I think it's probably next to impossible to get a heating up proc or pyro going without scorch, so that's out. I do like frostjaw over ring for that reason as fire, but it means you're really just a one trick pony and once people realize they just have to lock out frost to stop your huge burst it'll become a lot harder to make anything happen outside rng pyro crits, although that does free up fire for easier procs then.

bottom line to me is that in order for you to be a threat as fire you need to be able to have some serious burst potential every deep freeze you can land, and frost bomb definitely gives you that capability even without a pyro proc going in.

and even if frost bomb turns out to be too clumsy I think I'd still take nether tempest over living bomb - its just that much more consistent single target damage, especially with dispel on a cd nowadays.
I don't think frost bomb is neccasary, without it every deep with combustion I do is 200k+ damage. Usually I solo things from full hp to none(Usually healers) if not all my partner has to do is add a bit of damage and they're dead. You don't need any more burst then you already do. Plus you can do that much without being prepared. Just do a regular deep with a combustion. Excluding combustion dot damage its still 200k-300k+.
Hiya!

I just started this mage not too long ago, and I'm lovin' fire! This sticky is super helpful! I can't wait to be level 90 and roll baddies in bgs. I'm getting used to forcing Pyro's I'm having a hard time figuring out when to go for CC over damage. I guess since I spent so much time as a healer...

Hugs and more hugs!
Tersherie

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