PLEASE DELETE - NEW THREAD MADE

Druid
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Looking for thoughts on major glyphs since Solar Beam was changed in 5.1. I'm currently running Barkskin, Moonbeast, Solar Beam. While the change from a duration to a radius buff might make SB more useful for shutting down groups of casters in BGs, in arenas I always used it for a long-term silence with the plan that my partner(s) would be working to hold a single caster still inside it and eat its face, so the duration glyph was awesome.

So in that arena context, I'm thinking I might be better off with Prowl or Nature's Grasp. Prowl for the QoL improvement in the opening setup and when melding into it for an escape, NG for the obvious improvement to self-peels.

I'm asking here rather than in my own thread because the answer might have an impact on the glyph section of the guide. Has anyone experimented with this? I'm going to try Prowl first, it's the iffiest so it'd be best to confirm or deny viability there first.
I use the Fae Silence glyph to get a silence that doesn't miss/have a positional requirement like solar beam. I also use Wild Charge as a bear to peel melee off my healers.
12/09/2012 07:24 AMPosted by Bomchet
I use the Fae Silence glyph to get a silence that doesn't miss/have a positional requirement like solar beam. I also use Wild Charge as a bear to peel melee off my healers.


This.

It gives us ANOTHER form of silence/CC, especially if you're a tauren like me with war stomp.

Although I'm going nelf next week, so I'll lose one :< Either way, fae silence is great, and in my own personal opinion, barkskin still doesn't nullify damage as much as it should because of just how OP other classes are right now, especially melee. But that might just be from my PoV.

Anyway, fantastic guide and good additions from others. I like that SB + Vortex macro and will be using it now :) I'm still a bit torn myself on the haste/crit argument, but I think I might just be going back to haste really soon. I miss it dearly from Cata and I just think I do crap damage output because I don't stack it, and I don't have enough crit to get procs and/or compensate for the lack of damage from not enough haste (mostly because it's always going into being hit capped, even in PvP >.<)...
I don't know, man. Before MOP I was crushin the dps charts. Now I'm always at the bottom or near it. Anyone advice on how I'm gemmed?
I mean no offence Tempesto...I'm just confused by your reforges. You seem to have reforged out of everything...into everything. Ending up with a net loss on mastery and crit, for a tiny increase in haste.
I've found that hard casting really isnt worth it, dot everything - SS proc - Starfall seems to be the way to go. Crit and mastery worked better than haste for me. Since my gear sucks, I found geming power/resil better that straight power right now. As gear gets better i will go back to full pvp power gems.
#showtooltip Wild Charge
/target Wild Mushroom
/stopmacro [noexists]
/target=target
/stopmacro [noexists, harm]
/cancelform
/cast Wild Charge
/targetlasttarget


Is it just me or do you have to click the macro twice to get it to work? Once to cancel the form and another to use the charge. The macro thinks it's using the previous form's wild charge and not the caster form's wild charge despite what the macro says. I tested it with other abilities and wild charge seems to be the only one that wants to be clicked twice and I think it's because it's the only spell who's title stays the same but changes. Let me know how to fix it if it can be fixed please.

WILL BE UPDATING THE GUIDE SOON!

Merry Christmas everyone! <33
The one thing this pvp guide is missing is any instructions on how to pvp as a druid. There is a lot about stats and gemming, and even a bit on rotation, but nothing on strategy, or how to play as a druid in BGs -- which is where most Moonkins play. The role of a Moonkin is background support wherever possible. Moonkins are not survivable up close, and need to work in the background to dot people, then run when targeted.
12/09/2012 07:24 AMPosted by Bomchet
I use the Fae Silence glyph to get a silence that doesn't miss/have a positional requirement like solar beam. I also use Wild Charge as a bear to peel melee off my healers.


This is amazing silence for healers - Not many casters IE mages are going to silence a "bear" - LOVE this silence.

It goes well with Solar beam / Vortex into (displacer beast) if need - to bear silence.
If your not stacking crit - gl lol -
crit ticks on ur moonfire / sunfire refresh your dots on those targets.

If you are HARD CASTING anything its 1 of 2 things:

A) your not stacking crit /wrists

B) your breaking your 4 piece and going with the 20% more damage from star fall.

I go with healer pants for crit and then PVE shoulders - gloves for 20% buff to star fall -

Raid buffed I go almost up to 30% crit and NEVER have to hard cast. Spamming MF / SF gets me back and forth from lunar to solar power very quickly.

Playing it correctly, NOT dieing, you can keep star fall up a LOT during rbgs. Moreover, I am just spamming SSurge all the time.
Although I'm going nelf next week, so I'll lose one :< Either way, fae silence is great, and in my own personal opinion, barkskin still doesn't nullify damage as much as it should because of just how OP other classes are right now, especially melee. But that might just be from my PoV.


Barkskin is ehh in all honesty - Boomer are always going to be a kite class. I very rarely have to HC anything
01/20/2013 04:53 PMPosted by Jooshbag
Barkskin is ehh in all honesty - Boomer are always going to be a kite class. I very rarely have to HC anything


Just curious ... but why are you stacking so much crit? o_O I could see that for pve ... but even for Arenas, you have 2-3 people to dot up. Not enough to warrant fully gemming into crit. Crit is good for RBGs but you're never going to hit hard unless you stack pvp power.

But like I said, i'm mostly just curious. I've been pvping for about 2 months now, i've been raiding as a moonkin for years now ... but I know currently moonkins stack crit for pve. Just seeing how other people are playing atm.
01/21/2013 12:14 AMPosted by Bawk
Just curious ... but why are you stacking so much crit? o_O I could see that for pve ... but even for Arenas, you have 2-3 people to dot up. Not enough to warrant fully gemming into crit. Crit is good for RBGs but you're never going to hit hard unless you stack pvp power.


Jooshbag has very similiar gear to mine in pvp. He's crit gemmed, pvp power reforged. I'm pvp power gemmed, crit reforged.

His stats-
Pvp power: 42.03%
Crit: 25.62%. Assuming he weren't a worgen, that would be 24.62%. And then you count in 5% more crit from the buff, and 0.25% more from motw. That makes it 29.87%.

So he has a flat 42.03% damage increase on all his spells in pvp. And those spells have a 29.87% chance to cause 206% of their normal damage.

Taking Y to be the damage both of us would do in a bg with 0 pvp power and crit, he would do:

[(0.2987Y x 2.06) + 0.7013Y] x 1.4203 = 1.8699Y damage.

My stats-
Pvp power: 49.71%
Crit: 18.00%. Adding 5.25% to that, that's 23.25%.

So I have a flat 49.71% damage increase on all his spells in pvp. And those spells have a 23.25% chance to cause 206% of their normal damage.

My damage would be:

[(0.2325Y x 2.06) + 0.7675Y] x 1.4971 = 1.8660Y damage.

So overall, he would do 1.8699Y damage, and I'd do 1.8660. So just off those stat differences we'd basically do around the same damage.

Except that isn't true. The truth of the matter is crit does alot more than just cause 2.06x more damage damage for us. It procs starsurge, an incredible spell. Where I would be casting a measly Lunar shower stacked Moonfire, he would be using a spell that does nearly 4x its damage. And though this isn't as significant, crit also extends our dots slightly. You also synchronize better with a Warrior and his skull banner, which is great because when that goes down in pvp, it's likely that your team is going for a kill. Crit, unlike pvp power, also benefits our heals. All of this, in practice, creates a gap between us in favor of him and his crit.

Then we also have the nightmarish question of how all of this plays out in a realistic pvp setting. This is where the true answer lies. This is also, sadly, extremely difficult to derive a quantitative value for both those different builds from. Most hardcore type l33t sort of players will tell you something along the lines of 'no theory-crafting my pvp brah!' There is some truth to that.

The best you can do is compare how the different sort of builds work for yourself, ask others what their findings are, and see what the highest rated Moonkins go with. I personally think pvp power gemming is superior, as when you DO crit, you do more damage than someone who gemmed crit. So your crits are alot more game-deciding.

I can also see many arguments for crit gemming, but there just don't seem to be enough Moonkins who do so to take a proper look at. This could, however, just be because Pvp-power gemming is, as I suspect, superior. But if that is the case, then it is NOT because Moonkins who stack crit do bad damage.
Hit cap > PvP resilience > Crit > PvP Power > Mastery > Haste
Hit cap > PvP resilience > Crit > PvP Power > Mastery > Haste


That can be argued. :P
That's a good reforge/gemming priority for Arena. Not so much RBGs. You want a lot more power than resil for RBGs.

I'd honestly say;
Hit > PvP Power > Crit (Reforges) = Resil (Gemming) > Mastery > Haste

for BGs/RBGs.
03/13/2013 01:10 AMPosted by Bawk
Hit cap > PvP resilience > Crit > PvP Power > Mastery > Haste


That can be argued. :P
That's a good reforge/gemming priority for Arena. Not so much RBGs. You want a lot more power than resil for RBGs.

I'd honestly say;
Hit > PvP Power > Crit (Reforges) = Resil (Gemming) > Mastery > Haste

for BGs/RBGs.


I can see your point, but I'd still go for the resil in RBGs myself. I prefer taking 15% less damage over doing 5% more.
I'm currently really torn about the Crit vs haste debate atm. Doing research now. (From a 3s perspective).

I'm leaning towards Hit (till cap) > Res > Pvp power = Int > Crit > haste > mastery.

EDIT

Yeah i'm almost 100% sure crit will yield better results in this season for both Rbgs and 3s.

Working on updating the guide today! -Runs and gets coffee-
How do you get PvPPower==Int?

I'm showing both my DPS and my HPS do better with SP than with Power. One int is worth roughly 1.1 SP and 0.25 crit, putting it even farther ahead of Power.

As an example, If I'm at 28000 SP (and I'm not close to that in a BG) and 10783 PvPP

Starsurge = (4970+2.388*28000)*(1+10783/26500)*other_stuff
At that point scaling is at 3.4 damage/SP, but only 2.7 damage/PvPP (both before other_stuff)

Rejuv (tick) = (4234+0.392*28000)*(1+10783/256000/4)
SP grows that by about 0.43, while PvPP grows it by about 0.14.

Edit: Perhaps you meant for gemming? There the relative values are much more open for debate.

Edit: Perhaps you meant for gemming? There the relative values are much more open for debate.


Yeah haha. Im thinking Res in yellow. res/Int in red. and Power/res in blue. With Res in pris.
prob crit is more efficient but I'll still go with haste. single button gameplay? I rolled moonkin for exactly opposite promise of diverse engagement that it offered.

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