Moonfarespam: The Moonkin PvE Guide (5.2)

Druid
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My guild can't really seem to get the shroud to work on feng, so most of the first phase I spend my time healing and being unable to hit the boss.

That said, it seems like that's not the reason for my low dps. I see boomkins doing 70k and have no idea how it's possible. I will be trying Inc/NV tonight on Elegon and Will of the Emp if we get Elegon down, so maybe I will do more, but...

Is the 5273 haste rating going to make a 20k dps difference? At the moment, my gear is incapable of even reaching that, and I'd have to farm a lot of heroics for my haste to get any higher. I could change my gems to be haste, int haste, hit haste and all that, but I think I'm doing something wrong to be missing out on that much dps and I hate not knowing what it is.

Also, after looking at the logs, I've noticed that the top damage by spell is quite different. My DoTs are the highest, MF/SnF being 36% of my damage, yet Thegodofdps is closer to 30%. My starfire is 12% of my damage, but his is 22%. However, that is comparing it to my boomkitty setup during that fight, so that might explain it some.
We did Elegon tonight with my new setup. I feel like I should've done better, but at the start I did 140k dps, give or two a few thousand, and by the last phase 1, I was around 80k dps. We wiped, so that dps went down a bit, but I think that number should be higher. I'm refreshing dots before an eclipse ends or before NG falls off. I keep the dots on the boss and all the adds (excluding the sparks and the small adds during phase 3 when they're all grouped up).

Is this good, or am I doing something wrong?
10/15/2012 04:17 PMPosted by Joleen
My guild can't really seem to get the shroud to work on feng, so most of the first phase I spend my time healing and being unable to hit the boss.

Shroud is the bubble or the reflect? Either way, tell your tanks to try harder. Bubble is stupid easy. You just stand behind the boss and channel it. The reflect is a little harder to get just right, but once the tank gets the hang of it, shouldn't be a problem to get it every time.

10/15/2012 04:17 PMPosted by Joleen
That said, it seems like that's not the reason for my low dps.

It actually very likely is. Stopping DPS or having misses will significantly lower your DPS.

10/15/2012 04:17 PMPosted by Joleen
I see boomkins doing 70k and have no idea how it's possible.

Most were with heart of the wild, which was just nerfed, so we'll see what the new numbers are this week. Of course, the ranking parses won't be deleted, so they'll just stick around until people get more geared.

Also, a lot of the top parses are from heroic. WoL is still having issues separating regular and heroic modes.

10/15/2012 04:17 PMPosted by Joleen
Is the 5273 haste rating going to make a 20k dps difference? At the moment, my gear is incapable of even reaching that, and I'd have to farm a lot of heroics for my haste to get any higher. I could change my gems to be haste, int haste, hit haste and all that, but I think I'm doing something wrong to be missing out on that much dps and I hate not knowing what it is.

Not 20k, but it should be worth several thousand. Your gear is definitely capable of reaching that. You need to adjust your gemming to get there, though. Can't assess other potential problems without logs, though.

10/15/2012 04:17 PMPosted by Joleen
Also, after looking at the logs, I've noticed that the top damage by spell is quite different. My DoTs are the highest, MF/SnF being 36% of my damage, yet Thegodofdps is closer to 30%. My starfire is 12% of my damage, but his is 22%. However, that is comparing it to my boomkitty setup during that fight, so that might explain it some.

Are you still talking about Feng? On his ranking parse, he his damage breakdown was Starfire > SS >wrath > dots.

10/15/2012 07:55 PMPosted by Joleen
We did Elegon tonight with my new setup. I feel like I should've done better, but at the start I did 140k dps, give or two a few thousand, and by the last phase 1, I was around 80k dps.

Yep. Elegon DPS will go down after the initial start of combat spike. If done correctly it should come back up during the course of the fight due to the stacking debuff you put on Elegon.

10/15/2012 07:55 PMPosted by Joleen
I keep the dots on the boss and all the adds (excluding the sparks and the small adds during phase 3 when they're all grouped up).

Sounds fine. The biggest thing about maximizing DPS on this fight is to make sure you're ALWAYS casting buffed spells (excluding the pylon phase, of course). You can stand right on the edge of his bubble, and just jump up to drop your debuff. Make sure all your casts are happening while you're in the bubble.
10/16/2012 02:16 PMPosted by Eluial
You can stand right on the edge of his bubble, and just jump up to drop your debuff.

Amazing tip, thank you!!

I was finally able to reach the 5273 Haste last night after winning the bracers with a bonus roll from Spirit Kings so yay!
I can't figure out how to use wrathcalcs and my guild is starting raids tonight. I am using wow reforge right now for reforging http://wowreforge.com/US/Uther/Ronnylandau
I have my caps set to close to 5100 hit and close to 5273 haste.
I can't figure out how to use wrathcalcs and my guild is starting raids tonight. I am using wow reforge right now for reforging http://wowreforge.com/US/Uther/Ronnylandau
I have my caps set to close to 5100 hit and close to 5273 haste.

Did you have a question? What were you trying to do with Wrathcalcs that you couldn't figure out?
I couldn't figure out how to use it. I tried following the guide hamlet laid out but excel said error when I tried to change a box, and now I can't get wow reforge to work either.
Any other moonkins doing heroic modes? My guild is trying for them we got the stone dogs down but on heroic freng we need big burst to get out of phase one fast and we need big aoe burst in phase 2 for adds. The adds need to be CCed and killed fast or boss will heal to full.

I've tried a few combos to help with my burst but everything just turns down on me. (I'm flasked and prepopted on the the first few trys)
Inc/NV combo is good for burst but if we managed to get to ph2 on time my aoe is crap even if I'm in solar and since we needed the burst in ph1 my dps CDs are not up by the times the adds are up.

I tried saving my dps CDs for ph2 which makes ph 1 take longer and hurt our healers but we manage but to my shock unloading on the adds I'm still not doing enough to help and we have to burst those adds down about 3 or 4 more times before we get out of that phase.

DoC offers no burst what so ever and my kitty burst from HotW is super lacking now.

What are other moonkins doing? (I'm scared to even ask)
I hope the answer is just with my gear level xD but then it's like how much more gear will I need before I'm doing something notable. Do I need to be in my 4pc or what?

I just want to know I'm doing everything I can before I'm forced to sit out or hope my raid group isn't in much of a rush to get these heroics down. But the fact that they started so soon makes me think other wise.

I feel so bad. My guildies have been very good to me I don't want them thinking I'm slacking off!
Not gonna front, the rotation for optimum damage seems complicated with the mushroom positioning, cooldowns, and etc. What's the learning curve?
Hmm, say you cast a spell at like 0.1 second of Nature's Grace left, so the haste wears off during the cast. That spell doesn't suddenly have its cast time increased to match your cast time without Nature's Grace during the cast itself, does it?

I've been curious about this since forever, because if it's true then it means our effective NG's uptime is a bit higher than what logs might reflect. I only thought to bring it up because of the impact it has on our aoe rotation.

While spamming hurricane, as we so often do, it would be a good idea to recast it when your Nature's grace has < 1 second left, so the entire next channel is NG buffed despite the fact that it's not up. The extra tick or two it might net you would almost certainly more than make up for the slight delay there is when you re-cast hurricane.
10/10/2012 10:00 PMPosted by Eluial
So, I have to ask this in light of your revamped gemming advice section: Is stacking pure Intellect (red gems) in red slots no longer a viable gemming strategy, even for those of us who have JC as a profession?

Ah! thank you for reminding me, I need to include that. If you're a JC, your JC gems should all be pure int because the JC gems don't have the double stat budget that regular gems do (they have 1.5x the budget for secondary stats). And obviously you want to stick those in red or prismatic sockets. Otherwise follow the normal gemming strat.

Oh ok, so "INT > everything always" point-for-point, but 1 INT < 2 [secondary stat].

I was confused about that when I read your gemming strategy- you might consider making that point more clear. But great guide, thanks so much!
10/17/2012 05:36 PMPosted by Ronnylandau
I couldn't figure out how to use it. I tried following the guide hamlet laid out but excel said error when I tried to change a box, and now I can't get wow reforge to work either.

So, WC doesn't have reforge capabilities, actually. As for the errors, what version of excel and what version of WC are you using?

I haven't checked on wowreforge lately, but it sounds like it's still messing up, which is a terrible disappointment.

What I've been doing is using Ask Mr Robot (oh the horror!). The thing is, you really have to put in some effort to get good results from it. This is where things get a little complicated.

When you load up your character to mr robot, the first thing you want to do is lock the gems in your helm, because you don't want it to change your meta (assuming you're using revitalizing) and your enchants. Then you can hit optimize (because the stat caps it has are reasonably correct). What it's going to do is change your gems AND reforging to help you meet the hit/haste caps.

However, you don't want to really use mr robot's gem suggestions, because it still doesn't recognize exp = hit for moonkin (last I checked) and it prioritizes int gems too much. So you want to use a half-gem method of figuring out how to gem. It works like this:
Mr Robot says to use Reckless Vermilion Onyx (yellow slot) and Purified Imperial Amethyst (blue slot). That comes out to:
1 haste half-gem
1 hit half-gem
2 int half-gems

You want to make sure you use the exact same number of hit and haste half gems as mr robot suggests, because it is using those gems to get you to your caps. The int, where ever possible, should be replaced with crit, however. In this situation you could change your gems to a Energized Wild Jade (blue slot) and Smooth Sun's Radiance (yellow slot), which keeps the same number of hit and haste half gems, still matches the slot colors, and gives you more crit.

Make sense?
Inc/NV combo is good for burst but if we managed to get to ph2 on time my aoe is crap even if I'm in solar and since we needed the burst in ph1 my dps CDs are not up by the times the adds are up.

I tried saving my dps CDs for ph2 which makes ph 1 take longer and hurt our healers but we manage but to my shock unloading on the adds I'm still not doing enough to help and we have to burst those adds down about 3 or 4 more times before we get out of that phase.

I have NOT done heroics, so hopefully someone who has can offer more solid advice. But my suggestion would definitely be to stick with NV for this fight, and use CDs at the start of the fight. For the P2 adds, make sure you're in solar. Use an int potion and your on-use trinket to dot everything up, and then hurricane once they're gathered up. If possible, see if your shaman (if you have one) can save their stormlash totem for this phase.

Later on, when you guys are getting through P1 and 2 easily, it might make sense to start saving your potion for lust and using the totem at the start/end of the fight, but for now might make sense to do it that way.

Hopefully this actually makes sense. Again, I haven't done heroic modes yet, so I'm kind of just figuring stuff out based on what you said in your post.

10/18/2012 05:40 AMPosted by Velaniz
Hmm, say you cast a spell at like 0.1 second of Nature's Grace left, so the haste wears off during the cast. That spell doesn't suddenly have its cast time increased to match your cast time without Nature's Grace during the cast itself, does it?

I believe so.

While spamming hurricane, as we so often do, it would be a good idea to recast it when your Nature's grace has < 1 second left, so the entire next channel is NG buffed despite the fact that it's not up. The extra tick or two it might net you would almost certainly more than make up for the slight delay there is when you re-cast hurricane.

Makes sense.

10/17/2012 10:10 PMPosted by Kaloni
Not gonna front, the rotation for optimum damage seems complicated with the mushroom positioning, cooldowns, and etc. What's the learning curve?

No mushrooms anymore, except in some really rare circumstances (apart from preplaced ones at the start of the fight). I don't think the learning curve is any worse than learning the optimum rotation of any class. The difference is, with moonkin (especially at current gear levels) if you want to just tool around and not care, you're going to be pretty darn low on the meters. Obviously I'm rather biased, but I think it's a fun class and putting in the extra effort to get things right is very rewarding (especially with all the "moonkin sucks I'm rerolling" haters out there right now).

Oh ok, so "INT > everything always" point-for-point, but 1 INT < 2 [secondary stat].

I was confused about that when I read your gemming strategy- you might consider making that point more clear. But great guide, thanks so much!

This is actually a very good point. Thank you for mentioning it.
Any other moonkins doing heroic modes? My guild is trying for them we got the stone dogs down but on heroic freng we need big burst to get out of phase one fast and we need big aoe burst in phase 2 for adds. The adds need to be CCed and killed fast or boss will heal to full.

I've tried a few combos to help with my burst but everything just turns down on me. (I'm flasked and prepopted on the the first few trys)
Inc/NV combo is good for burst but if we managed to get to ph2 on time my aoe is crap even if I'm in solar and since we needed the burst in ph1 my dps CDs are not up by the times the adds are up.

I tried saving my dps CDs for ph2 which makes ph 1 take longer and hurt our healers but we manage but to my shock unloading on the adds I'm still not doing enough to help and we have to burst those adds down about 3 or 4 more times before we get out of that phase.

DoC offers no burst what so ever and my kitty burst from HotW is super lacking now.

What are other moonkins doing? (I'm scared to even ask)
I hope the answer is just with my gear level xD but then it's like how much more gear will I need before I'm doing something notable. Do I need to be in my 4pc or what?

I just want to know I'm doing everything I can before I'm forced to sit out or hope my raid group isn't in much of a rush to get these heroics down. But the fact that they started so soon makes me think other wise.

I feel so bad. My guildies have been very good to me I don't want them thinking I'm slacking off!

We dabbled with Feng last night, mostly to experiment with his new add phase before raid was over. It was nothing too serious, so I may or may not change my own strategy on our next raid.

I think what I'll end up doing is going full support mode while everyone else kills the adds, because my slows and snares seem to be the most versitile in my raid group. Pre-planting mushrooms (for Fungal Growth), alternating Ursol's Vortex's every other add phase, and glyphing into Hurricane for the 50% slow. You can even Typhoon them back and daze them if you're positioned right.

So really, it depends on your raid. If you're in 10's and you actually contribute a majority of the CC, then I would probably opt to go that route and mostly let everyone else burn the adds while you control them. If you're in a 25-man, or your raid cares more about your damage output, then I'd try to hold a Starfall until they pop, multidot with your Eclipsed DoT (both DoTs on main targets), and then single-target the ones nearest to the boss (while trying to slow them with Vortex and whatnot). Use both DoTs if the adds are being controlled by others, and you have time to apply everything and nuke before they die. Continue to use burst CDs as normal.
@Eluial I am using microsoft 2011 excel and Im using MRrobot now with your suggestions thanks!
Thank you very much to both Eluial and Tree for the advice! Thankfully my group will just finish the raid off this week as normal and try heroic again next week ^^ I will make sure to try this stuff out and make sure my raid leader understands what I'm doing.
I've noticed Mrrobot gives different gem/reforge options every time I get new gear and it's frustrating. Last week it pushed me to gem crit and now it pushes me to gem haste. I gemmed haste and it helped a ton. In some cases, it was making me ignore the slot bonus for haste gems too. I figured it wouldn't hurt. It's done more good than harm, tbh.
10/19/2012 08:46 AMPosted by Shikoku
I've noticed Mrrobot gives different gem/reforge options every time I get new gear and it's frustrating. Last week it pushed me to gem crit and now it pushes me to gem haste. I gemmed haste and it helped a ton. In some cases, it was making me ignore the slot bonus for haste gems too. I figured it wouldn't hurt. It's done more good than harm, tbh.


It's probably because before you weren't able to reach the haste break point and now with your upgrades you were able to.
10/19/2012 11:32 AMPosted by Eluial
I've noticed Mrrobot gives different gem/reforge options every time I get new gear and it's frustrating. Last week it pushed me to gem crit and now it pushes me to gem haste. I gemmed haste and it helped a ton. In some cases, it was making me ignore the slot bonus for haste gems too. I figured it wouldn't hurt. It's done more good than harm, tbh.


It's probably because before you weren't able to reach the haste break point and now with your upgrades you were able to.

Actually, I checked Mr Robot this week -- only upgrade i've gotten since is a belt. I didn't think that would make that much of a difference on my gemming. :P But tbh, I kinda prefer having more haste for right now. Makes everything feel a lot faster, and if I did drop back down to the 5.3k haste, i'd probably feel sluggish again. :c
So, for now it's probably not a big deal. I think all the conflicting reports just go to show that haste and crit are pretty close for the time being. But I think at higher gear (and haste) levels, crit really does pull far, far ahead.

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