Eternal Flame or Sacred Shield?

Paladin
(For holy pve of course)

I know what Noxxic says-- use Sacred Shield.

However. I've been playing around with Eternal Flame... Basically what you end up with is a 100k instant cast heal that triggers a nice long HoT which also builds Illuminated healing.

So the question is, whats the skinny on this talent choice? Is there a clear difference in the two? Why should I take Sacred Shield when Eternal Flame is seemingly so awesome? What are your thoughts on this?
I think it's because Sacred Shield is free, which means it's usable under all condition be it Tank and Spank, or High raid wide damage. While Eternal Flame is awesome. Sacred Shield doesn't cost any mana OR Holy power, which makes it highly valuable during phase where you'd prefer using Light of Dawn.
I read a sim on them which showed they were almost the same, I've taken the sheild over the hot
I used SS for a bit and didn't like it all that much. As a pally I feel I've got enough "life saving" utilities as it is. Another one felt like overkill.

I switched to EF and love it. There's nothing like a good WOG with a decent HOT rolling up on the backside of it. I tend to keep it rolling all the time across the raid with procs, etc.

EF all day long.
I started out with SS but now I'm using EF and I wouldn't dream of switching back to SS for three reasons:

* You can EF multiple targets - I make a note to keep a 3HP EF on both me and the tank at all times (since pallies no longer auto-heal themselves). Holy Avenger makes it a breeze to get those (extra powerful) EFs up when you need it in a pinch. I can also toss a 1-2HP EF up on a DPS who's taking a little bit of damage so I don't have to worry about healing them.

* I'm not a priest (ok, I am, but not my Paladin). Sometimes I want to play a preventative healer who throws on shields and sits back, and sometimes I want to get in there on a reactive healer and toss heals all around. To me, Paladins have always been about the latter, and I enjoy that playstyle. It's not fun for me playing a Paladin that prevents damage and has to mash those healing buttons less.

* It's too redundant with our mastery - also, the EF HoT is a great way to automatically build up shields between fights without spending mana.

Edit: I've yet to experiment with EF and Divine Purpose (I'm honestly not sure why I haven't yet...) - it's likely even better.
lol... yeah. Last night after I posted this I did a 10m and I started getting DP procs... I just started putting EF on everyone lol. I healed for 48k when someone screwed up and almost wiped us.

EF is definitely better than SS, idc what the sims that are out say, although I'm sure it will get nerfed a little. Or DP will get nerfed seems more likely.

I think Noxxic needs to reconsider.
Apparently the argument on EJ is... Is it better to spend HoPo on LoD and have free SS, or to use EF to gain HoTs that scale with haste and have absorbs automatically applied (illuminated healing).

If I remember correctly, my HPS was higher as well as my absorbs number last night using EF over SS. I wish I'd have had the foresight to save all the charts.

See-
http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t126896-mists_pandaria_all_specs/p10/
EF and I aren't comfortable working together. SH and I achieve a synergy that outweighs spreadsheets. I have enough haste=spare gcd's to Judge when I want to.
Eternal Flame is the real winner for me.

If you Eternal Flame everyone in your group, even with just 1 Holy Power, not only does it provide a decent Heal over Time, but your Beacon of Light will also gain 50% (per person, per tic) of healing too. And if you get lucky with 2+ Divine Purpose procs, you get to sit back and jump around for about 30 seconds.

The HoT also keeps, and refreshes the stack of our Illuminated Healing absorption shield from our Mastery. Which makes it easier, and less expensive to keep everyone in the group shielded up as it constantly renews and buffs the shield every tic.
SS is currently overshadowed by our mastery. Most heroic DS geared paladin that stacks mastery is probably sitting around 32 - 38% mastery. Which means one crit holy shock (typically 50% crit or higher) will easily put a 24k to 32k shield. A 3 HoPo EF is easily worth 32k to 60k shield depending on your luck with crit.
Since everyone's mana is cut to 100k, your best bet is the spell that costs less with the same results. Its not about who is highest on the heal chart, but if you have the mana to finish the fight and keep everyone alive.
It's kind of a tough decision between the two right now. EF is quite strong, and because it procs Illuminated Healing it's really quite good even with a high overheal rate. SS is nice but kinda random and can only be on one target, and has no up-front healing or absorb component.

My choice is Eternal Flame, even for 25's. Make sure to bring Dust of Disappearances so you can swap it for SS for Heroic Yor'sahj if need be. Eternal Flame causes stacks on Purple phases whereas untalented Word of Glory does not. With the nerfs, it probably won't make a huge difference unless you're watching a tank, but it never hurts to min/max.

Yes, I learned the bit about Heroic Yor'sahj the hard way. :-(
I think when you get harsh words you can also dot your enemy with this... not sure though havent tested.

both are nice, i think neither one is better. for prot i use shield since i dont usually wog myself in pve. but for other specs shield is not as useful.
09/09/2012 04:51 PMPosted by Kenpo
I think when you get harsh words you can also dot your enemy with this... not sure though havent tested.


Nah, Glyph of Harsh Word specifically says it doesn't work with EF.
Okay since we are on the topic i have a quesiton as well...

I'm prot but i have SS and i thought i over heard that the prot buff (cant think of name) that increase AP per damage taken, doesnt work while abosrbing damage. SO prot pally dps is low enough as it is should i go EF??
In regards to the SS/Vengeance query... I don't think that's the case, whoever mentioned that may be thinking of warriors/bears back in the day when shields blocked rage generation.
Who is your tank? If it's a prot paladin than he'll be casting SS on his own most likely. Then your SS is going toward a non tank target. I guess you should look it as "Do you want SS regardless of who's tanking" or "Do I want a talent that is beneficial to a prot pally who already has SS running".
Okay since we are on the topic i have a quesiton as well...

I'm prot but i have SS and i thought i over heard that the prot buff (cant think of name) that increase AP per damage taken, doesnt work while abosrbing damage. SO prot pally dps is low enough as it is should i go EF??


As a prot pally you should take SS over EF. You do not want to be using your Holy Power on a heal if it can be avoided.

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