Ji Firepaw: Does he even have a clue...

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I think it's more of a "the orcs landed on our island and told us what the Horde is for and what it is so I'm going to join it over the peaceful and civilized group". It's just that they didn't know the extent of how far this ideal went or of how arrogant Garrosh is. If Ji had any idea what the Horde actually was and how horrible Garrosh was he most likely would have chosen the Alliance instead. But for now he just has to tough it out and wait until Garrosh dies or until his society adapts to the Horde's ideals.
No, seriously. The guy must not have much grey matter left if he's willing to pledge himself and his people to a gigantic military organization which he knows nothing about and has barely dealt with.


The EXACT same thing can be said for Aysa
09/08/2012 09:42 PMPosted by Lochnar
No, seriously. The guy must not have much grey matter left if he's willing to pledge himself and his people to a gigantic military organization which he knows nothing about and has barely dealt with.


The EXACT same thing can be said for Aysa


yeah, but just like the last time i voted, she guessed right!
I'll be honest, I'm quite interested to learn more about whether Garrosh is truly "evil", or whether he's simply be blinded by his advisors...
09/08/2012 01:15 PMPosted by Andarin
I don't care if Vol'jin or Baine represent the loyal resistence so-to-speak


Loyal resistance in what way?

The

A. Horde isn't what it was when they joined up

B. Horde is getting stuff done in the way they don't like it.

To be quite honest with you, I'm leaning more towards B. The Horde is (supposedly) desperate for resources. The orcs/forsaken, they were getting stuff done that was making the horde stronger. The only person who has openly voiced an opinion about the direction of the horde to Garrosh is Vol'jin. Baine is silent and would let Garrosh learn or die, instead deciding to be patient.

Sylvannas more or less doesn't care, as long as her immortality remains in check

Lor'themar Theron hasn't had much interaction with the warchief, and for that matter neither has Gallywix.

Ji Firepaw more or less embodies what Garrosh is about - His decisions are rash and hasty, he never considers the consequences, and he's all about using force.

His disciples are the same.
09/08/2012 11:11 PMPosted by Seebach
Baine is silent and would let Garrosh learn or die, instead deciding to be patient.


I am pretty sure almost attacking Garrosh in front of the other Horde leaders, constantly voicing his anger about Molten Giants, openly disproving of the Mana Bomb, is not silent.

Baine thinks that he is more powerful than Garrosh, however he cannot challenge Garrosh because of a) He may be murdered in the same way as his father and b) His people would likely suffer if he attacked Garrosh.

09/08/2012 11:11 PMPosted by Seebach
Sylvannas more or less doesn't care, as long as her immortality remains in check


She does care. She openly disproves of the Siege of Theramore, and insists that this tactic would likely result in the Alliance attacking Lordaeron.

09/08/2012 11:11 PMPosted by Seebach
Lor'themar Theron hasn't had much interaction with the warchief, and for that matter neither has Gallywix.


His interaction with Garrosh he told him that he is loyal to the Horde, not to Garrosh Hellscream, causing Hellscream's annoyance. Gallywix is fully supportive of Garrosh, in fact it appears at one point he wanted to hug Garrosh, and Hellscream patted him on the top hat once.

Have you read Tides of War?
09/08/2012 11:18 PMPosted by Gruffe
Have you read Tides of War?


I picked up the cliff notes. I'll get around to reading it eventually, but I've been burned by the lore as of late, so I'll take my time with deciding if I should pick up another book of information that should have been incorporated into the game.

However, at the main point of the thread, it would appear that you don't have an issue with my opinion regarding Ji Firepaw.
09/08/2012 11:31 PMPosted by Seebach
However, at the main point of the thread, it would appear that you don't have an issue with my opinion regarding Ji Firepaw.


I don't know enough about Ji to make a proper assesment. We know him from, what, one zone?
She does care. She openly disproves of the Siege of Theramore, and insists that this tactic would likely result in the Alliance attacking Lordaeron


Please don't remind me of this, it was the most facepalm worthy thing I've read this year.

"I plagued Southshore to the point that even we can't live there, I've murdered scores of Alliance citizens, , conducted brutal experimentation, and enforced slave labor on the ones that I let live, and I descerate the bodies of the dead ones in order to fuel my people's population.

But OH NO an attack on a continent on the other side of the world is going to make the Alliance ATTACK ME!!!!!"
Yes, well, Blizzard knows how much we love inconsistant writings of characters and plots!
09/09/2012 12:01 AMPosted by Lochnar
But OH NO an attack on a continent on the other side of the world is going to make the Alliance ATTACK ME!!!!!"


See, I read it more as "if you make such a focused attack, Varian and the Alliance will use the opportunity to attack us knowing you're too involved on Kalimdor to send aid."
I don't see where Ji's adirmation of the Horde is rooted. First contact he had with them, they're escaped prisoners that problably caused the Skybreaker to crash into their home. They lie about the circumstances they're facing and attempt to get Ji to blow up their former captors.
09/08/2012 09:20 PMPosted by Zizz
In the meanwhile while Ji tried to find a way to save a dying Turtle, Ayssa wanted to sit there and have the turtle hopefully live by the Alliance priests. Yes, that totally sounds like a great idea. Let's just hope instead of trying to do something to fix it.


This

spoilers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMJ_8dQ0svU&feature=relmfu

Action, reaction. Doing something over doing nothing. I think it meant show the underlying contrast between the the two factions without going deeper into the details of it.

On a semi related note, the video does show off the contrast between the Horde and the Alliance rather well. The Horde does something and gets crap for it while the Alliance complains and cries a river.
I rather hate the Alliance for being do nothings. They don't even consider a course of action. They simply don't do anything.
After doing the horde panda intro with Garrosh....I was ready to quit the horde and join the alliance. Ugh.
09/08/2012 01:15 PMPosted by Andarin
I don't care if Vol'jin or Baine represent the loyal resistence so-to-speak, the fact remains that the Horde is mostly centered around factions who simply don't care who they kill, how many, or how as long as they win.


Vol'jin has threatened to kill Garrosh, has left the Horde because of him, ect, because it wasn't what it use to be. He only re-joined because Thrall asked him to, and he respects Thrall undyingly. He considers Thrall his brother. That goes to show he wouldn't willingly kill for conquest and power, either, because of Thrall.

Baine hangs on for his people. He absolutely hates Garrosh for, obviously, killing his father, and later, when it happens, bombing Theramore. Both he and Vol'jon were tricked into helping that event occur. Baine is so passive and soft-hearted, he wouldn't kill just for power and dominance. He's practically neutral-faction, he only stays to the Horde, because, like I said, for his people. He probably holds a respect for Thrall, as well, but I'm not going to say he does because I don't know if that's true or not.
Baine is not neutral. He honors his father by staying with the Horde his father placed so much faith in. He doesn't like Garrosh, but he sees Garrosh's rule as only being temporary and not the least bit reflective of the Horde itself.
09/08/2012 09:42 PMPosted by Lochnar
The EXACT same thing can be said for Aysa


Yeah, it can

But read further. You'll see that I touched upon envoys / ambassadors (sp) / peace-makers. The Alliance are going to have a -phenominal- leg up on the Horde when it comes to recruiting strangers through the fact that, despite Varian being a hot head here and there, the bulk of their leaders are more intelligent than fourth graders and understand that diplomacy and tact have a place.

In addition to that, the Alliance troops aren't marching around butchering everyone in their path in any way possible, murdering civilians en-mass, ect ect. If they sent someone to talk treaties who wasn't a flaming moron and warmonger, that person also wouldn't be secretly whispering into Ji or Aysa's ear -not- to join their faction because of all the terrible things the leader is doing.

EDIT: They're both stupid for pledging themselves so quickly, I'm not arguing that. Ji is just brain-dead for joining up with the group which actively does not care about its appearance and leaves quite the obvious trail of brutality and stupidity in their wake. Aysa is stupid too, but at least the Alliance have the potential to be pretty good con men. Garrosh and Co. just aren't smart enough to trick a baby out of a lollipop; and the ones who are hate Garrosh's guts and wouldn't want anyone serving under him.
Problem is Ji's first experience with the Horde is with Tauren leading them. Tauren are very mush like Pandaren peaceful but more than capable of defending themselves.
He really doesn't, if he'd seen UC I guarantee he never would've joined the Horde.

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