Incarnation + Celestial Alignment

Druid
Does the increased spell dmg stack 25% + 48%?? If i use Incarnation ( Requires Eclipse) and then celstial alignment does that mean incarnation went to waste??? Haven't been playing wargames for about 3days. Last time i checked i pumped out dmg like a mofo by using Incarnation + starfall in lunar eclipse and then resetting cds with celestial alignment. ???????
Pretty sure that if you're in your Incarnation moonkin form and you trigger celestial alignment, the Incarnation bonus to eclipse damage is stacking still because Celestial Alignment puts you into both eclipse states for 15 seconds. So you trigger Incarnation as you enter eclipse (either one) and then trigger Celestial Alignment right as you exit eclipse, can keep the damage bonus going. Or not. I'm still fiddling with my rotation.

The point is it still gives you the bonus because you're technically in eclipse when you hit Celestial.
I just asked R1 /Glad Thegodofdmg and he said " Nope they dont stack" If you read the tooltip for celestial alignment it says Grants you the simultaneous damage benefit of both your Lunar Eclipse and Solar Eclipse, increasing damage done by your Nature and Arcane spells by 15%. In addition, casting Moonfire also applies the the periodic damage effect of Sunfire to your target.>>>>>>>>>It does not put you in a eclipse.<<<<<<<<
CA qualifies as an eclipse as far as Incarnation is concerned. You want to cast CA when you leave an eclipse if you have Incarnation going because if you don't, Incarnation doesn't buff your damage until you reach the next one.
Uneclipsed Starfire
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (19624 Overkill)
Your Eclipse (Solar) applied You.
Your Nature's Grace applied You.
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (20106 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (39513 Overkill) (Critical)
Your Velocity applied You.
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (40804 Overkill) (Critical)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (19365 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (19527 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (19390 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (20185 Overkill)
Your Nature's Grace faded You.


Eclipsed Starfire
Your Eclipse (Lunar) applied You.
Your Astral Communion faded You.
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (29312 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (29473 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (58749 Overkill) (Critical)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (58569 Overkill) (Critical)
Your Eclipse (Lunar) faded You.
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (59480 Overkill) (Critical)
Your Velocity applied You.
Your Nature's Grace faded You.


Eclipsed + Incarnation Starfire
Your Eclipse (Lunar) applied You.
Your Nature's Grace applied You.
Your Incarnation: Chosen of Elune applied You.
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (36455 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (74004 Overkill) (Critical)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (36638 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (36859 Overkill)
Your Eclipse (Lunar) faded You.


CA + Incarnation Starfire
Your Nature's Grace applied You.
Your Celestial Alignment applied You.
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (109179 Overkill) (Critical)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (52777 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (54360 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (53984 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (109278 Overkill) (Critical)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (54366 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (53619 Overkill)


TL;DR yes they stack.

Did all that without weapon or will of unbinding equipped to avoid SP changes.
Why is starfire hitting ~50% harder during CA than it is during lunar eclipse?

Huh, Wrath and starsurge are doing the same thing for me. Guess CA really does give a damage boost on top of normal eclipse :)...

For just wrath, SS, and SF, not the DoTs, and the tooltips are saying what they would be during a normal eclipse :P.
09/11/2012 08:15 PMPosted by Ahanss
Why is starfire hitting ~50% harder during CA than it is during lunar eclipse?

Good catch. Doing the math, it is definitely double dipping on mastery. Very weird. Will investigate further.
Very weird. I'm not seeing the double dipping effect anymore. I moved to darnassus target dummies so that other peoples' debuffs wouldn't affect my tests, but that's all I changed.

No buffs, just moonkin form, level 80 target dummy, no will of unbinding, no weapon

6947 SP
1617 mastery (total of 46.95% damage increase)

Eclipsed
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (26333 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (26563 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (26988 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (26315 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (25966 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (25950 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (25713 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (26521 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (26357 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (26613 Overkill)

Uneclipsed
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (18374 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (18165 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (17628 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (17592 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (18373 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (17938 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (17934 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (18182 Overkill)

CA
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (26839 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (26122 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (25697 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (25588 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (25582 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (26410 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (25890 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (25928 Overkill)

Incarnation (eclipsed)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (31961 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (33032 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (32203 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (32817 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (33393 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (33141 Overkill)

CA + Incarnation
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (32039 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (32413 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (32384 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (32979 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (32251 Overkill)

-------------------------------
OK, this is definitely weird. The tests above were very contrived, in that I used AC to move my eclipse bar around, and I just used CA/inc at the same time instead of the way we do it rotationally.

But just now I went ahead and set things up the way we do at the start of our rotation. So, 75 pre-lunar, hit wrath, Inc, starfire spam til end of lunar, CA, more starfire spam. I didn't cast any other spell, just starfire. Here's the complete combat log for that:

Your Eclipse (Lunar) applied You.
Your Nature's Grace applied You.
Your Incarnation: Chosen of Elune applied You.
Your Wrath hit Training Dummy 1 Nature. (21926 Overkill) (Critical)
Your Velocity applied You.
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (33583 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (33764 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (32609 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (32950 Overkill)
Your Eclipse (Lunar) faded You.
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (53871 Overkill) (Critical)
Your Celestial Alignment applied You.
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (47620 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (47510 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (48596 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (98256 Overkill) (Critical)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (47501 Overkill)
Your Velocity faded You.
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (49054 Overkill)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (99849 Overkill) (Critical)
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (48587 Overkill)
Your Nature's Grace faded You.
Your Celestial Alignment faded You.
Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (17433 Overkill)
Your Incarnation: Chosen of Elune faded You.

When I cast CA on the tail end of lunar, it appears to be double dipping on mastery again, even though it didn't earlier when I just cast CA at a random spot on the eclipse bar.

I don't know what to make of this.
09/11/2012 09:17 PMPosted by Eluial
When I cast CA on the tail end of lunar, it appears to be double dipping on mastery again, even though it didn't earlier when I just cast CA at a random spot on the eclipse bar.
This explains how I've seen 300k+ starsurge crits in raid on bosses with no damage taken increase.

Kinda strange, likely a bug that will be hotfixed. For now though...cast CA at 20 lunar I guess.
09/11/2012 10:15 PMPosted by Tagartou
Kinda strange, likely a bug that will be hotfixed. For now though...cast CA at 20 lunar I guess.

Doesn't have to be at 20 lunar. I know the combat log sometimes puts things in a weird order, but I always cast it when the bar is at 0.
Weird, never noticed that, but I guess it explains the 207k starsurges i see on dummies. Like you said, the double dipping for starfire/starsurge only seems to happen when CA is cast right at the end of lunar under incarnation. If you use both on a random spot in the bar, it doesn't. Heck, it doesn't even happen if you use it at 40 or 20 lunar energy lol. Seems like you have to wait for the Eclipse to end and then quickly apply CA right after to get the double-dipping effect

Which leads me to believe it might be a bug. Which means all the burst we've been seeing now has been in no small part due to a bug which gave us super nukes when we used CA at the end of eclipse =(

And another point worth noting, like Ahanss mentioned above, is that only nukes benefit from the double-dipping effect. Dots and starfall don't.
09/11/2012 10:15 PMPosted by Tagartou
For now though...cast CA at 20 lunar I guess


It can't happen at 20 lunar, not for me anyways. It always has to wait for the Eclipse to actually end first. All the more reason it's likely a bug.
Hm.

Nothing that can proc any SP, or any on-use items.

Starting from full lunar. Eclipsed Starfires are around 22k, Uneclipsed around 15k. Eclipsed Wraths are around 12k, uneclipsed around 8k. Eclipsed starsurges are around 26k, uneclipsed less, obviously.

After CA ended, I cast AC until I was in solar. I then proceeded to chain-cast ECLIPSED starfires, until I used starsurge. At which point, it finally registered that I wasn't in lunar eclipse and my starfires went back to normal.

I used Wrath during CA, to show that it wasn't double-dipping. Only lunar nukes were, DoTs don't seem to be affected by this at all.

[22:19:56.360] Ahanss Starsurge Training Dummy *1* (O: 52954)
[22:19:58.259] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy 1 (O: 22190)
[22:20:00.045] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy 1 (O: 21346)
[22:20:02.452] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy 1 (O: 21272)
[22:20:04.390] Ahanss's Eclipse (Lunar) fades from Ahanss
[22:20:04.390] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy 1 (O: 22194)
[22:20:08.950] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy *1* (O: 62638)
[22:20:11.758] Ahanss Wrath Training Dummy 1 (O: 12886)
[22:20:12.862] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy 1 (O: 31215)
[22:20:15.234] Ahanss Starsurge Training Dummy 1 (O: 36298)
[22:20:16.421] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy 1 (O: 31133)
[22:20:18.567] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy *1* (O: 61302)
[22:20:27.420] Ahanss gains Eclipse (Solar) from Ahanss
[22:20:36.550] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy 1 (O: 21115)
[22:20:38.683] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy 1 (O: 21749)
[22:20:40.652] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy 1 (O: 22086)
[22:20:42.657] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy 1 (O: 21314)
[22:20:45.058] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy 1 (O: 21510)
[22:20:47.476] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy 1 (O: 21373)
[22:20:49.559] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy 1 (O: 21341)
[22:20:51.907] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy 1 (O: 21720)
[22:20:54.294] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy 1 (O: 21928)
[22:20:56.291] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy 1 (O: 21175)
[22:20:58.816] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy *1* (O: 44131)
[22:21:01.450] Ahanss Starsurge Training Dummy 1 (O: 26456)
[22:21:02.751] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy 1 (O: 15066)
[22:21:04.970] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy 1 (O: 15355)
[22:21:07.648] Ahanss Starfire Training Dummy *1* (O: 30760)
09/11/2012 10:30 PMPosted by Ahanss
After CA ended, I cast AC until I was in solar. I then proceeded to chain-cast ECLIPSED starfires, until I used starsurge. At which point, it finally registered that I wasn't in lunar eclipse and my starfires went back to normal.

Wow, something fishy is definitely going on!

So, it doesn't appear to be tied to CA specifically, but rather to lunar ending. I just started in lunar, SF til end of lunar and hit astral communion on the tail end of my last SF, until solar, then SF spam on the tail end of AC. I was able to keep my SFs eclipsed until I threw in a SS, and then it registered.

22:35:18> Your Eclipse (Lunar) applied You.
22:35:18> Your Nature's Grace applied You.
22:35:18> Your Astral Communion faded You.
22:35:20> Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (26237 Overkill)
22:35:22> Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (25565 Overkill)
22:35:25> Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (26378 Overkill)
22:35:27> Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (26110 Overkill)
22:35:29> Your Eclipse (Lunar) faded You.
22:35:29> Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (54937 Overkill) (Critical)
22:35:29> Your Astral Communion applied You.
22:35:33> Your Nature's Grace faded You.
22:35:33> Your Nature's Grace applied You.
22:35:33> Your Eclipse (Solar) applied You.
22:35:33> Your Astral Communion faded You.
22:35:35> Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (26305 Overkill)
22:35:37> Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (53249 Overkill) (Critical)
22:35:39> Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (54107 Overkill) (Critical)
22:35:41> Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (26239 Overkill)
22:35:43> Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (26756 Overkill)
22:35:45> Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (26348 Overkill)
22:35:47> Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (25566 Overkill)
22:35:48> Your Nature's Grace faded You.
22:35:50> Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (26032 Overkill)
22:35:52> Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (25684 Overkill)
22:35:54> Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (25793 Overkill)
22:35:57> Your Starsurge hit Training Dummy 1 Spellstorm. (33477 Overkill)
22:35:59> Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (37034 Overkill) (Critical)
22:36:02> Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (18388 Overkill)
22:36:05> Your Starfire hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (37353 Overkill) (Critical)

You can see the same effect with solar, too.

22:40:37> Your Eclipse (Solar) applied You.
22:40:37> Your Nature's Grace applied You.
22:40:37> Your Astral Communion faded You.
22:40:41> Your Wrath hit Training Dummy 1 Nature. (15525 Overkill)
22:40:42> Your Wrath hit Training Dummy 1 Nature. (15494 Overkill)
22:40:44> Your Wrath hit Training Dummy 1 Nature. (30721 Overkill) (Critical)
22:40:46> Your Wrath hit Training Dummy 1 Nature. (15363 Overkill)
22:40:47> Your Wrath hit Training Dummy 1 Nature. (30752 Overkill) (Critical)
22:40:49> Your Wrath hit Training Dummy 1 Nature. (15059 Overkill)
22:40:50> Your Eclipse (Solar) faded You.
22:40:50> Your Astral Communion applied You.
22:40:51> Your Wrath hit Training Dummy 1 Nature. (15633 Overkill)
22:40:52> Your Nature's Grace faded You.
22:40:54> Your Nature's Grace applied You.
22:40:54> Your Eclipse (Lunar) applied You.
22:40:54> Your Astral Communion faded You.
22:40:56> Your Wrath hit Training Dummy 1 Nature. (31184 Overkill) (Critical)
22:40:58> Your Wrath hit Training Dummy 1 Nature. (15480 Overkill)
22:41:00> Your Wrath hit Training Dummy 1 Nature. (15280 Overkill)
22:41:02> Your Wrath hit Training Dummy 1 Nature. (15348 Overkill)
22:41:03> Your Wrath hit Training Dummy 1 Nature. (15575 Overkill)
22:41:05> Your Wrath hit Training Dummy 1 Nature. (15594 Overkill)
22:41:06> Your Wrath hit Training Dummy 1 Nature. (15399 Overkill)
22:41:09> Your Starsurge hit Training Dummy 1 Spellstorm. (34968 Overkill)
22:41:09> Your Nature's Grace faded You.
22:41:12> Your Wrath hit Training Dummy 1 Nature. (10452 Overkill)
22:41:13> Your Wrath hit Training Dummy 1 Nature. (10104 Overkill)

Guess it's time to mosey on down to the beta forums and make a post.
Just so you know, you don't have to time CA at all. I went from 100 lunar to 0, tabbed out and read the forums for a bit, and came back about 3 minutes later to hit CA and try casting Starfire.

It was still hitting for ~30k, as opposed to the 22k it should be.
This isn't specifically related to this topic, but while we're on about bugs, does anyone notice we can cast stampeding roar currently in caster/moonkin form even without the glyph?

Also Nature's Swiftness is usable in flight form, which allows us to cyclone people from up in the air.
09/11/2012 10:48 PMPosted by Velaniz
This isn't specifically related to this topic, but while we're on about bugs, does anyone notice we can cast stampeding roar currently in caster/moonkin form even without the glyph?


I just took stampede off, casting it dumped me into bear form. We're supposed to be able to cast it, the glyph just makes it so it doesn't force-shift us.

09/11/2012 10:48 PMPosted by Velaniz
Also Nature's Swiftness is usable in flight form, which allows us to cyclone people from up in the air.

That is awesome.
Just so you know, you don't have to time CA at all. I went from 100 lunar to 0, tabbed out and read the forums for a bit, and came back about 3 minutes later to hit CA and try casting Starfire.

It was still hitting for ~30k, as opposed to the 22k it should be.

Huh. So I bet it just has to do with what they did to make it so SS and Wrath travel time don't matter to eclipse procing.

edit: I made a post in the class balance thread. Hopefully that was a good place to put it.
That would explain why dots and starfall don't get the same effect. Also, if you use astral communion to get from 100 to 0 lunar energy and then proceed to pop CA, you don't get the double dipping. This is probably also explained by what you said.

Hmpf. A fix to this would basically amount to a nerf, so I'm hoping Blizz does something that makes CA and Incarnation stack, like alot of people seem to think. Does anyone with beta access find it's happening on their level 90 toons too?

Edit: In light of this super-nuke discovery, it looks like my spine macro will be seeing a few changes. And to think I pulled 2 mil on the last tendon last week just popping everything together and hence not benefiting from the (newly coined) 'Eclipse double-dipping'.

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