MoP 5.4 Elemental Guide: Zap that Orc!

Shaman
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EB before the start of the pull is best. It's the highest priority travel time spell. If you are graced with a count down timer you can probably start it at the 1-2 second mark. Then flame shock, lava burst, FE, lash, and ascendance away. If there's a little bit of down time before you can ascendance (if there's no MD for example, or just positional requirements) and you hold off then you can probably EB before the ascendance and pray for a mastery proc.

But yes, you are wasting time doing what you're doing by lashing after ascendance If anything you should macro lash into ascendance, and drop FE manually since he can go and attack from the get go. You have to cast to get the lash damage. You literally don't want to do anything but lava burst/lava beam during ascendance. Unless you're cool like me and you forget to refresh flame shock before ascendancing, zone out, and then question why your burst was !@#$? OH. 17 lava bursts hit? WONDER WHAT I DID WRONG.

11/09/2012 10:58 PMPosted by Tazjiin
However, I did notice that the initial burst of dps was quicker towards the beginning before tapering off like it normally does. (at least for me)


Are you saying EBing into ascendance is more burst DPS? Because it should be on average. If you get a haste buff that isn't going to waste by throwing you under the 1 second GCD, or a mastery proc then you're casting faster than you normally did, or getting more overloads.

Also, skull banner is pretty sex for us. Our burst is so stupid high when we have it, and line everything up properly. Elegon opening pull numbers can really make me %^-* sometimes.
11/10/2012 08:13 AMPosted by Liax
Are you saying EBing into ascendance is more burst DPS? Because it should be on average. If you get a haste buff that isn't going to waste by throwing you under the 1 second GCD, or a mastery proc then you're casting faster than you normally did, or getting more overloads.


I don't barely ever use ascendance.

I feel like anytime I use it with a boss, it never does more damage than I'm already doing.
11/10/2012 01:04 AMPosted by Grimsight
With elemental blast and echo of the elements what order of our abilities do you find having the highest burst?


For an opener?

Before combat begins:
Searing Totem down
Cast Elemental Blast with 2 seconds on the pull timer
Flame Shock as pull timer ends

When combat begins
Lava Burst
Greater Fire Elemental Totem
Stormlash + Heroism + Ascendance
Lava Burst spam

Stormlashing after Ascendance wastes a full GCD of Ascendance.

I don't barely ever use ascendance.

I feel like anytime I use it with a boss, it never does more damage than I'm already doing.


O.o

Ascendance is monstrously good. "You can pretty easily peak over 150k dps in your gear without gimmicks" good. It's one of the best burst cooldowns in the game.
11/10/2012 09:22 AMPosted by Tazjiin
Are you saying EBing into ascendance is more burst DPS? Because it should be on average. If you get a haste buff that isn't going to waste by throwing you under the 1 second GCD, or a mastery proc then you're casting faster than you normally did, or getting more overloads.


I don't barely ever use ascendance.

I feel like anytime I use it with a boss, it never does more damage than I'm already doing.


He's trolling
He's trolling
He's trolling

I'm just going to keep telling myself that.
For an opener?

Before combat begins:
Searing Totem down
Cast Elemental Blast with 2 seconds on the pull timer
Flame Shock as pull timer ends
So with a boss fight would it be totem > pre pot> then continue?
He's trolling
He's trolling
He's trolling

I'm just going to keep telling myself that.


No, genuinely I'm not.

I'm probably sub-par at best when it comes to dps.

I just enjoy WoW so much I don't plan on quitting

I'll help to clarify what I do.

Searing Totem at all times>Flame Shock>Lava Burst>Elemental Blast>Lightning Bolt(x4-6)>Earth Shock.
I use Chain Lightning only when I have 3 or more targets.

For easy big mobs I usually get out Magma Totem and combine for Earthquake when I'm lazy.

Now, rotation-wise if that is no good please tell me so I can correct it.

Also, with the addition of extra totems like Stormlash and Stone Bulwark which I use only when I'm worried about my health or feel the group needs the extra boost.

Then on top I use Blood Lust when it becomes a DPS race.

So, with Ascendance thrown in there, to top my post all off, do I continue with the basic rotation or do I spam something while in that form?
Light of the Cosmos from LFR, or one of the heroic trinkets with static intellect?
11/10/2012 07:51 PMPosted by Kegg
So with a boss fight would it be totem > pre pot> then continue?


No. It'd be Totem is down well before the pull (30-45s remaining on pull works, but 10-15 would still be adequate) > pre pot > EB with ~1-1.5s on pull > Continue standard rotation.

The EB is essentially free damage.

11/10/2012 08:47 PMPosted by Tazjiin
So, with Ascendance thrown in there, to top my post all off, do I continue with the basic rotation or do I spam something while in that form?


Spam Lava Burst while Ascendance is up. Ascendance causes your Lava Burst to have no cooldown, and Lava Burst is your highest DPCT (Damage Per Cast Time - which is the same thing as DPS for any non-DoT) spell in any case where Flame Shock is active on your target which means Ascendance should be a rather large increase.

11/11/2012 12:56 AMPosted by Mindquake
Light of the Cosmos from LFR, or one of the heroic trinkets with static intellect?


LFR Light of the Cosmos should be a minor upgrade over any of the 463s, though it's a close thing. May want to sim it to make sure that's the case for you.
No. It'd be Totem is down well before the pull (30-45s remaining on pull works, but 10-15 would still be adequate) > pre pot > EB with ~1-1.5s on pull > Continue standard rotation.

The EB is essentially free damage.
Alrighties, ty. :)
11/11/2012 12:56 AMPosted by Mindquake
Light of the Cosmos from LFR, or one of the heroic trinkets with static intellect?


LFR Cosmos by far.
11/21/2012 11:21 PMPosted by Cheami
Light of the Cosmos from LFR, or one of the heroic trinkets with static intellect?


LFR Cosmos by far.


Eh. The value of the proc is hit fairly hard by the fact that it can only proc off of Flame Shock, and haste isn't nearly as valuable as it used to be. LFR Cosmos should be a minor upgrade over either of the heroic trinkets, but not a major one.
Okay, maybe I am super dumb, but I completely disagree with this whole EB pre-pull thing. If you EB pre-pull, yeah, you get that nice damage right away, but here's what you also get, depending on which buff you get: maybe your FS will crit or have it's tickspeed increased from haste, your LvB already crits because of the FS, but might have an increased chance to overload/echo if you ge the mastery buff, and then assuming you then drop FET, hero, and then lash, your next move will be to Ascendance, now a good 6 GCDs into the fight (and thus 2 seconds left on your EB buff), which means maaaaaybe your first 2 LvBs after Ascendance will benefit.

On the other hand, if you EB right before Ascendance (and after all that other stuff), several more of your LvBs could benefit from the possible haste or mastery buff (with crit obviously not making a difference because the LvBs will already be critting). So essentially the trade-off is the instant damage + possible crit or haste buff on your FS and maaaaaybe an extra overload on that first LvB and 1 or 2 after Ascendance, versus the potential haste or mastery buff on several more LvBs after Ascendance.

So, am I wrong on something? Please, show me the math that makes the pre-pull EB better. Or are you operating under the assumption that the instant damage and possible haste buff to FS is winning out?
11/27/2012 12:06 PMPosted by Tickletotem
So, am I wrong on something?


The overall idea is that over the course of the encounter you've traded 1 EB for 1 LB by using EB first instead of LB.

Not only are you overvaluing the buff by a large amount (worth ~30-35k damage on average,) but you're ignoring that if you hero on the pull like you imply that the entirety of the haste buff will be wasted regardless if you hold EB till right before you heroism. Lets start with two scenarios where the openers are the same with the exception of the pre-pull spell and where EB fits in:

1) EB before pull -> FS -> LvB -> Lash & Hero/Ascend at the end of the Lash GCD -> LvBx12 or so -> EB

vs

2) LB before the pull -> FS -> LvB -> EB -> Lash & Hero/Ascend at the end of the Lash GCD -> LvBx12 or so

S1 gets an extra EB at the end because there's a 2s difference in cast time between the two without it (equal with it.) and that's the next spell that would be cast in S1's rotation.

In scenario 1 if the buff is Crit only the FS will benefit, if the buff is haste only the FS and the first LvB will benefit, and if the buff is mastery then the FS and the first 3-4 Lava Bursts will benefit.

In scenario 2 if the buff is crit nothing will benefit, if the buff is haste nothing will benefit, and if the buff is mastery the first 6-7 Lava Bursts of Ascendance will benefit.

On average, the buff will do more damage for you in scenario 1 than it will in scenario 2 (haste/crit in S1 slightly outweigh the mastery for S2,) and you'll also get more damage out of scenario 1 by the time you're at an equal amount of time casting again (noting that the opener for S2 takes 2s longer than S1.
11/27/2012 01:26 PMPosted by Gistwiki
(haste/crit in S1 slightly outweigh the mastery for S2,)


Why this? You said yourself that in S1 the crit only affects the FS and haste only the FS and first LvB, while the mastery in S2 affects 6-7 LvBs. Wouldn't the increased overload chance on 6-7 casts outweigh the crit/haste on 1 or 2?
Why this? You said yourself that in S1 the crit only affects the FS and haste only the FS and first LvB while the mastery in S2 affects 6-7 LvBs. Wouldn't the increased overload chance on 6-7 casts outweigh the crit/haste on 1 or 2?


Mastery benefits the initial LvB and the first 4 Ascended LvBs as well in S1. You're also forgetting the effective damage gained by replacing a Lightning Bolt with that EB that you gain from using EB at the start of the rotation instead of LB. 3500 Mastery on 1-2 LvBs vs 3500 crit or haste on a flame shock + 3500 haste on 1 Lava Burst is a miniscule difference.

That difference (whichever way it ends up going) is made up by the difference between the initial EB v LB. By using EB at the start, over the course of the encounter you end up gaining the difference in damage between 1 EB and 1 LB in S1 on top of the stat bonus.
Okay, makes sense. You've convinced me. =)
11/27/2012 08:49 PMPosted by Tickletotem
Okay, makes sense. You've convinced me. =)


:D

It's a very very minor difference anyways. Nothing to sweat over, but it makes for a fun mental exercise.
Well, and that's what I love about theorycrafting. Some of this stuff I don't think of on my own (like the pre-pull with primal then switching to EB - speaking of which, did they fix that? I tried it in lfr today but I think my FET disappeared =\ ), but sometimes when I hear stuff I go "wuuuut?" because it doesn't instantly make sense.
11/27/2012 09:40 PMPosted by Tickletotem
speaking of which, did they fix that? I tried it in lfr today but I think my FET disappeared


Think so. I know they fixed the T13-4pc abuse.

As for the rest of your post - Indeed! ^.^
11/27/2012 10:14 PMPosted by Gistwiki
Think so. I know they fixed the T13-4pc abuse.


Well, poop.

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