Shared Shock Cooldown still needed?(Blue plz)

Shaman
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Holy s*** people! You are really defending something this stupid this intensely? You people need to take a chill pill. Grow up and learn to adapt to the changing times. Do you all still use check books instead of debit cards, and complain every day that your old analog cell phone was outdated?
09/22/2012 07:06 PMPosted by Lurgarn
Holy s*** people! You are really defending something this stupid this intensely? You people need to take a chill pill. Grow up and learn to adapt to the changing times. Do you all still use check books instead of debit cards, and complain every day that your old analog cell phone was outdated?

09/22/2012 06:21 PMPosted by Lurgarn
The sure-fire sign of a person's argument falling apart.
I think the lvl 90 talent Elemental Blast would be a cool addition to a shaman's dps priority queue. Apparently it will proc crit/haste/mastery randomly (please correct me if I'm wrong!), which will make your rotation more different like you want it to be, I hope.

From what I have seen it is random for which procs, which will add something interesting for it proccing between haste and mastery (mastery will give us a net gain on Fulmination charges, and haste will have us cast faster giving more charges and more instant lava bursts).
09/22/2012 07:07 PMPosted by Chillbronies
Holy s*** people! You are really defending something this stupid this intensely? You people need to take a chill pill. Grow up and learn to adapt to the changing times. Do you all still use check books instead of debit cards, and complain every day that your old analog cell phone was outdated?

The sure-fire sign of a person's argument falling apart.

Dude, go troll somewhere else. I have seen pretty much nothing but troll posts from you all over the shaman forums. I am at least trying to get things fixed... you are just wasting everybody's time.
09/22/2012 03:43 PMPosted by Chillbronies
I'd rather keep Frost Shock on the shared cooldown so I don't have to start using it in PvE as Enhancement. We finally got ES buffed into something noticeable, I'd rather not go back to the way Cata worked where we really only hit ES because there was nothing better to do.
Ah, even more people not reading. I said that something needs to be added to make it more interesting.


I stated this twice, and stated it before you, and you took a good page and a half to even say something needed to be added. You initially started blabbering out that the cooldowns just needed to be removed.

Granted, I didn't see your post saying something needed to be added, but you didn't argue for it for a awhile, so don't act like you're some misunderstood guy who knows what he's talking about. We all said removing complexity is bad because it makes it too simple and boring. You argued against it, and then said something else would have to be added, and now act as if you've been advocating that the entire time. Not the case.

09/22/2012 07:01 PMPosted by Lurgarn
Taking away needless complexity while adding in something that keeps you occupied (without adding in needless complexity- something like making Earth Shock best at 5 stacks or adding in Flame Shock to Fulmination stacks, just shooting ideas here) makes the spec boring and undesirable.


Adding something in adds complexity.

I get the impression you love talking as if you're just laughing at the people you post.

"Ah, even more people not reading"
"I read this as..."
"Damn I love idiotic assumptions" (It hasn't been idiotic btw)

The reality is you're not some guy who is intellectually above us, and understands what he's talking about. You're saying to remove complexity, and replace it with another avenue of complexity and claim it's not added complexity, but to keep us "busy" as if there is really any difference.

If you want to advocate removing shock cooldowns while adding a different ability to keep us buys, then great. Have at it, I think it'd be good for PvP, but as far as PvE goes it's really not needed other than adding flavor (IE: Shamans having an important frost ability in their rotation).

I think the lvl 90 talent Elemental Blast would be a cool addition to a shaman's dps priority queue. Apparently it will proc crit/haste/mastery randomly (please correct me if I'm wrong!), which will make your rotation more different like you want it to be, I hope.


It's stated to theoretically be the highest DPS talent we can pick, but does add complexity to our rotation, and the DPS gain isn't terribly high (2-3%)
09/22/2012 07:06 PMPosted by Lurgarn
Grow up and learn to adapt to the changing times.

Are you seriously telling us to adapt to the hypothetical changes you've presented? Changes that will never come to pass?
09/22/2012 07:06 PMPosted by Lurgarn
Holy s*** people! You are really defending something this stupid this intensely? You people need to take a chill pill. Grow up and learn to adapt to the changing times. Do you all still use check books instead of debit cards, and complain every day that your old analog cell phone was outdated?


You're comparing the shock CD to check books?

......

Ironically enough, just about the only post you haven't responded to is mine, and I think I addressed what you posted rather adequately.
09/22/2012 07:20 PMPosted by Rude
Grow up and learn to adapt to the changing times.

Are you seriously telling us to adapt to the hypothetical changes you've presented? Changes that will never come to pass?

Just like how the totems were never going to be changed? Blizzard does *eventually* listen to the community, it is just a matter of them listening to the right people (they usually don't).
Just like how the totems were never going to be changed?

I don't recall anyone reasonable ever saying that.
09/22/2012 07:30 PMPosted by Lurgarn
it is just a matter of them listening to the right people (they usually don't).

If the people who play shaman competetively and have done so for years aren't the right people, who are?
Just like how the totems were never going to be changed? Blizzard does *eventually* listen to the community, it is just a matter of them listening to the right people (they usually don't).


09/22/2012 07:31 PMPosted by Chillbronies
I don't recall anyone reasonable ever saying that.


Also, Blizzard will never remove the cooldowns from shocks without fundamentally changing their damage and their proc-based mechanics. As I've said before, unlinking them (but keeping the cooldowns) could happen, but they will never not have a cooldown alltogether.

If the pull is not nice and perfect, I lose out on dps. Basically, if it isn't one huge group pulled at once that keeps a nice tight pack, my flame shock doesn't spread to all of them when I lava lash, and I lose dps that I would have had. I also lose damage every time I have to reapply flame shock (because every flame shock is a lost earth shock). This system is just plainly archaic and should have been removed at least 3 years ago.


Er, actually, Flame Shock is the highest dps-per-action spell Enhancement has going into Mists. So, no, you aren't losing dps when you cast it. If it was a dps loss to cast Flame Shock, Enhancement wouldn't cast it.

The first part is sort of a concern, but if they're dying that fast before they had a chance to get grouped up, then AoE probably wasn't necessary. Also, Flame Shock spread via Lava Lash has a cap limit, so - assuming it's a "huge group" - you don't need them all grouped up in the first place to start off.

Sorry I missed your post, too busy fighting trolls. I want our AoE to be improved (with the removes flame shock CD) because I DO NOT like to just sit on my hands at any point while in a group. On my warrior I will even throw (shoot before 5.0) when I cannot get into melee range from some ground effect/whatnot. When I just sit there and auto attack with my magma totem ticking away, I feel like I may as well leave because I am serving no purpose.

I know that flame shock does do a bit more damage than earth shock (obviously it is why we use it), but all we do with it is apply the dot once then just maintain it until the end of the fight. Really, I say screw Ele, Enh needs the complexity added. UE, LL, SS, FS... UE, LL, SS, ES... LB... UE, LB, SS, ES... so complex and interesting...
09/22/2012 07:37 PMPosted by Lurgarn
UE, LL, SS, FS... UE, LL, SS, ES... LB... UE, LB, SS, ES... so complex and interesting...

Wow, that's not right at all.

Sorry I missed your post, too busy fighting trolls. I want our AoE to be improved (with the removes flame shock CD) because I DO NOT like to just sit on my hands at any point while in a group. On my warrior I will even throw (shoot before 5.0) when I cannot get into melee range from some ground effect/whatnot. When I just sit there and auto attack with my magma totem ticking away, I feel like I may as well leave because I am serving no purpose.

I don't see why blizzard should make a change because you have a weird view point of what makes you useful in a raid setting.
09/22/2012 07:31 PMPosted by Chillbronies
I don't recall anyone reasonable ever saying that.

Quite the new troll, apparently. I have been saying for quite a while that totems as they were, well they were garbage. They were fine in Vanilla, because then the game was actually difficult (compared to how it is now). but with BC on as they made the game more casual-friendly they decided that the original model was just fine for totems.

They also never said that they CDs with the shocks would never be adjusted, shifted, separated, or removed.
09/22/2012 07:42 PMPosted by Lurgarn
Quite the new troll, apparently. I have been saying for quite a while that totems as they were, well they were garbage. They were fine in Vanilla, because then the game was actually difficult (compared to how it is now). but with BC on as they made the game more casual-friendly they decided that the original model was just fine for totems.

I don't think you understand what I was saying. No one ever said

totems were never going to be changed
09/22/2012 07:45 PMPosted by Chillbronies
Quite the new troll, apparently. I have been saying for quite a while that totems as they were, well they were garbage. They were fine in Vanilla, because then the game was actually difficult (compared to how it is now). but with BC on as they made the game more casual-friendly they decided that the original model was just fine for totems.

I don't think you understand what I was saying. No one ever said

totems were never going to be changed

And nobody said that shock CDs will never be changed, so stop acting like this was the word of God.
09/22/2012 07:37 PMPosted by Lurgarn
Sorry I missed your post, too busy fighting trolls.


Hmmm, I'm going to play the role of you in this response.

Ah, yes, the way I read this is that if someone disagrees with you, and not just one person in this case, as you have multiple high end players who play both elemental and enhance tell you you're wrong then they are clearly trolls right?

That's like a 52 step breakfast machine or some !@#$.
09/22/2012 07:46 PMPosted by Lurgarn
And nobody said that shock CDs will never be changed, so stop acting like this was the word of God.

what are you even talking about

09/22/2012 07:47 PMPosted by Liax
That's like a 52 step breakfast machine or some !@#$.

I lol'd
09/22/2012 07:37 PMPosted by Lurgarn
I know that flame shock does do a bit more damage than earth shock (obviously it is why we use it), but all we do with it is apply the dot once then just maintain it until the end of the fight. Really, I say screw Ele, Enh needs the complexity added. UE, LL, SS, FS... UE, LL, SS, ES... LB... UE, LB, SS, ES... so complex and interesting...


From an Enhancement perspective, yes, the priority queue is really boring. Sorry, I have a tendency of always thinking Elemental first these days. Anyways, I got two opinions to give about that.

First, you mentioned AoE. Not all classes/specs are great at AoE. In fact, their AoE DPS performance may vary according to the number of targets they will face and how long will they take to die. For an enhancement shaman, mobs that die too fast will not make he or she top the meters for that AoE encounter since he or she didn't probably have the time to both spread flame shocks and hit with fire nova (forgive me if i am remembering Enh's AoE roration wrong). That being said, I never expect blizzard to make all classes really close balanced around AoE in any number of targets.

Second, I am sorry but I still dont get why taking the shocks away from a shared CD would make an Enchancement PvE priority queue less boring. You would get to throw a few more Earth Shocks, but that is all.
I don't know why I keep feeding these trolls... man I really need something to do. I wish there really was something to do in my city other than going to another city...

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