Blizzards Blind eye to Linux Users.

Games, Gaming and Hardware
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09/24/2012 08:44 AMPosted by Fenyo
I use linux and I just dual boot to play WoW. I really don't see what the issue is. You're taking precious development time for something that does not need to be made instead of making better and more content.

I build my own machines and I don't want to/can't spend the extra 100$ or more on an OS that I'm going to hate just so I can play one game.

09/24/2012 08:47 AMPosted by Draug
Combined with the existence of Wine and the fact that Blizzard views Linux users as a bit more tech savy then normal users and the fact that according to their surveys most linux users are dual booters with a windows/linux computer, so there is no reason to develop a Linux client.

But Linux, mainly Ubuntu it seems, is becoming more and more mainstream and not every user is very tech savvy. It's very easy to install Linux now, Ubuntu even has an option to install it like one would any other program from within Windows and then boot into Ubuntu right when the computer starts up.

09/25/2012 11:06 AMPosted by Elliar
Back in the day, Direct X had competition from OpenGL, That is no longer true. Why?? Because OpenGL couldn't keep up with the changes in 3D technology. It's not that Direct X Is proprietary, it's that atm for game it the best there is.

"Outside of a few minor functional differences which have mostly been addressed over the years, the two APIs provide nearly the same level of function"
from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_OpenGL_and_Direct3D

Personally, from a non-coders perspective it doesn't make sense to support DX when there's an alternative that runs on more than one platform. From what I can see DX/Windows is used because they have their software installed on probably 99% of computers being sold in stores because Microsoft is a juggernaut but that's a completely different topic.

09/25/2012 11:23 AMPosted by Kouze
Linux is hard to develope for because it doesn't have a standard.

This is not the reason. There is a standard.
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/lsb

Also, Desura is a program similar to Steam that already supports native Linux games as well as native Windows games. There's no option for a specific distribution, there's just 32 bit or 64 bit and Windows or Linux.
http://www.desura.com/

will i still play the game without a linux client yes i would just like them to make one so would alot of people.


Essentially you're asking them to develop and support an additional game client with no increase in sales.

It's not a sound business decision.


So, you're saying we all need to quit and get everyone else to quit until they support Linux officially? I would gladly if I thought it would matter.
Are you saying that it's not a sound business decision to give your customers what they want and make their lives easier so they continue playing?

WoW is the only non-native game that I play. I refuse to buy games that won't support Linux and especially those who don't even care about if it'll work through Wine. Sorry to the developers, some of those games might be really awesome but I'm not buying an OS just to play a few games and pirating is out of the question.

It could very well hurt sales if it drew resources away from say... Raiding development, PvP development, content development...

I'm pretty sure it would be a completely different team working on it. Blizzard has many different teams doing many different things so all-in-all it probably wouldn't hurt much, if at all.
so blizzard hows that linux client comeing along :P hint hint :P
I would be happy if they fixed opengl so that it's playable. They recently broke it in 5.0.4 such that it's broken even in Windows and therefore Wine faithfully emulated the bugs.

Honestly I don't care about the doodads, shadows, sunshafts, etc. They would be nice, but not having the map cursor show up all the time is making levelling in a new zone/expansion VERY difficult... (and the character frames drawn incorrectly is ugly too...) I've had to use my uncomfortable, slow laptop with chipset graphics to play since that's the only copy of Windows I own, and much rather use the faster desktop with the RadeonHD 5770...

I have Linux installed on the laptop, ready to wipe Windows once I don't need it. I do not trust Windows at all, it runs too many things behind my back.
I've been swapping back and forth between OpenGL when I want higher settings at higher frame rates and D3D9 when I want to be able to preview armor and see where I am on the map. It's not really fun.
Wait Linux (including Knoppix and other similiar to Linux) are an open source programs/os, which they are free. Why should Blizzard spend their money on an open source os/program if hardly anyone uses them?

I took Linux in school and is nothing compare to Windows, why would anyone go about installing games through a command line? Linux is not easy os/program for anyone to even mess with, it could be one of the reasons why Blizzard doesn't care.

I'm not saying I'm againts your idea, but you gotta look at the obstacles that this program/os has and it wouldn't net anything to Blizzard for the fact that is a free software/os/program.

Edit: If you can somehow manage to get this thread to 50 pages, maybe Blizzard would take into consideration.
Blizz do not need to reduce prize for more subscription. They need to !@#$ING give us what we ask for since the beginning. Thats why im stopping wow after my playtime card. We pay them. So they work for us. But do not give a %^-* about what we want. Too bad for them.
Wait Linux (including Knoppix and other similiar to Linux) are an open source programs/os, which they are free. Why should Blizzard spend their money on an open source os/program if hardly anyone uses them?

I took Linux in school and is nothing compare to Windows, why would anyone go about installing games through a command line? Linux is not easy os/program for anyone to even mess with, it could be one of the reasons why Blizzard doesn't care.

I'm not saying I'm againts your idea, but you gotta look at the obstacles that this program/os has and it wouldn't net anything to Blizzard for the fact that is a free software/os/program.

Edit: If you can somehow manage to get this thread to 50 pages, maybe Blizzard would take into consideration.


Just because you pay for a os doesnt make it superior because you paid for it. Yes windows has some advantages mostly the amount of software for it. But it also has alot of disadvantages. Just like linux it has less software support but the os it self is alot more secure then windows.

Yes linux actually requires you to learn a little bit about your pc.. The power of it is not in the gui but what you can do at the command line level. Anyone that grew up with having windows as a adon and not total dominance over your pc will understand. Yes windows is great for people that dont wanna learn 1 thing about there pc. That can also be applied to linux you could install it run native software and be happy and never have to learn about it. We could go on over and over about this. There is no reason they cannot make a linux client it would not hurt them to do so.. People seem to chime in like blizzard makeing a linux client and makeing there software truly multiform like its going to diminish the windows users??? This is false.
Windows 8 could be the pusher for Linux games, the Metro UI is not getting good reviews from people who just want the windows that is useful.

Valve is backing Linux, if Steam on Linux becomes popular the other companies will have to follow.

Also making Blizzard games work on Linux will be trivial, they already support OSX which is a flavor of Linux(well its BSD but they are pretty similar). But more importantly on OSX they use an OpenGL graphics engine for their games, Linux uses OpenGL too which Means they have a functional video engine that can speak with the graphics drivers in Linux.
Windows 8 could be the pusher for Linux games, the Metro UI is not getting good reviews from people who just want the windows that is useful.

Valve is backing Linux, if Steam on Linux becomes popular the other companies will have to follow.

Also making Blizzard games work on Linux will be trivial, they already support OSX which is a flavor of Linux(well its BSD but they are pretty similar). But more importantly on OSX they use an OpenGL graphics engine for their games, Linux uses OpenGL too which Means they have a functional video engine that can speak with the graphics drivers in Linux.


ran win 8 in a vm station i can agree to this the metro ui is bad.

Im not saying windows doesn't have some advantages especially when it comes to the amount of software for it. But the direction the windows team is taking sense bill gates left is not the direction the rest of the os platform is taking. Mac os had about the same idea before it was dropped to make the desktop os more like there mobile os the feedback they got was not very positive so they scrapped the whole idea.

Yes more mobile phones tablets seem to be the norm but there is still room for desktop's . Could windows 8 be the catalyst for the market to support more mac os/Linux over windows. Well it almost happened once before history is known for repeating itself but who knows maybe this time we will come out on top.

For people that dont know. There was a time when mac os dominated the market. Bill gates approached steve jobs with an offer if they would have made mac os run on intel x86 arch back in the day they would have dropped the whole windows platform and just made software. Steve turned them down to the fact he wanted to control all aspects of the hardware/software. It was one of the very few mistakes that was made in hindsight it could have been more profitable for both companies.

How would this have effected the linux/unix platform/? Well sence mac os is a subset of freebsd with alot of there own code. Software itself is pretty standard even across mac os / linux unix environment. Sence they both conform to the posix LSB Base granted mac has a few additional platforms it supports aka coca. But even still mac os Object C is sitll pretty standard sense its used more as a wrapper for whatever is built inside the Object C wrapper.

On another note sorry this is so long,

People talk about linux fragmentation. Yes back in the day linux fragmentation could have been a programing nightmare but sense most major end user distros conform to Linux standard base. Programing 1 item to work across multi distros is not hard and is done daily. Granted there can be some quirks where one app might require some tweaking to get working on another distro. But its very non common place. Even if it was the linux community is great at helping people get the software working. Also note the majority of linux users use ubuntu. Ubuntu has been pretty much the catalyst of getting more of a one distro to rule them all. I dont mean that in a bad way but its very user friendly + ITs alot more plug in play then windows is and supports pretty much any device u throw at it unless its some very odd propitiatory device. Novice linux users could use it just as they could windows without learning much about the os at all,
WoW is one of the most stable apps for Wine right now, why would they need to make a desktop client when it works just fine already?

http://www.winehq.com/
WoW is one of the most stable apps for Wine right now, why would they need to make a desktop client when it works just fine already?

http://www.winehq.com/


simple

wine translated software + overhead < Native client with very little overhead and not having to worry about patches breaking client or wine regression bugs.
For all my gaming needs, I'd support Apple because they're a good company. Quality and standardization wouldn't be a problem. Linux is overrated and overhyped freeware with ugly interfaces... very messy.
10/03/2012 05:27 PMPosted by Virtus
For all my gaming needs, I'd support Apple because they're a good company. Quality and standardization wouldn't be a problem. Linux is overrated and overhyped freeware with ugly interfaces... very messy.


lucky your opinion doesn't matter. linux is not over hyped nore does it have ugly interface granted some apps do but that is also the same in windows to so whats your point?
10/03/2012 05:27 PMPosted by Virtus
For all my gaming needs, I'd support Apple because they're a good company. Quality and standardization wouldn't be a problem. Linux is overrated and overhyped freeware with ugly interfaces... very messy.


Linux is not really overhyped , and Ubuntu is a very solid OS that if presented to someone they would never even know its Linux because the public sees Linux as a command line. And while Apple does hack together a nice box, I have a custom built by myself gaming machine.

Core i7 2600k
32gb of ram
Intel SSD and a WD Velciraptor
Geforce 560Ti
900w PSU.
Windows 7 64bit Professional

However if all my games became native to linux I would go to linux because it has less overhead overall so it would suit better to my CG modeling under Blender.
10/04/2012 12:13 AMPosted by Delmarva
For all my gaming needs, I'd support Apple because they're a good company. Quality and standardization wouldn't be a problem. Linux is overrated and overhyped freeware with ugly interfaces... very messy.


Linux is not really overhyped , and Ubuntu is a very solid OS that if presented to someone they would never even know its Linux because the public sees Linux as a command line. And while Apple does hack together a nice box, I have a custom built by myself gaming machine.

Core i7 2600k
32gb of ram
Intel SSD and a WD Velciraptor
Geforce 560Ti
900w PSU.
Windows 7 64bit Professional

However if all my games became native to linux I would go to linux because it has less overhead overall so it would suit better to my CG modeling under Blender.


just a fyi sorry to quote yours.

OSX is prime example that unix/linux/freebsd systems can compete.
Whether my opinion matters or not is entirely beside the point. Does my opinion accurately reflect reality? Obviously, since there's still no official linux client this late in the game's existence. Clearly, it's very lucrative to sell windows/mac versions of wow, but not Linux. The reasons vary, but I suspect that the typical Linux user is a power user, not a gamer. Also, a Linux client wouldn't exactly go over well with MS and Apple. Blizz have obviously made a lot of money from very lucrative business arrangements. Generally speaking, it's not good business to make those higher up on the ladder angry. MS makes a lot of money by controlling the supply chain and the industry as a whole. Hypothetically, if Invidia starts making linux versions of their graphics cards, and then AMD and down the line, then things start to unravel and MS loses substantial money from sales of their OS, licensing fees, etc. Realistically, you can only hope that MS loses its position as industry leader. For the forseeable future, that's not likely to happen. Apple, as a resurgent leader, and now the world's largest tech company, is obviously better situated to be a viable alternative.
Also, with the current state of technology, overhead is hardly an issue. With exception of a faster linux boot up, everything runs smoother and faster in windows because the windows platform is the industry standard. BSD is considered technically superior to linux, but linux does more, so it's more popular, just as windows does more than either in regard to gaming and over all performance. Windows just works. It's very fast and has a clean, attractive interface. Ubuntu with its strange hybrid tablet-desktop interface doesn't do anything for me. From a design perspective, it makes no sense in terms of a DE because it's trying to be an all in one solution. How about just make separate editions? Anyway, gnome 2 was ugly. Gnome 3 is garbage mac wannabe just like unity. KDE is obviously windows inspired, so it's not as bad as the others.
Whether my opinion matters or not is entirely beside the point. Does my opinion accurately reflect reality? Obviously, since there's still no official linux client this late in the game's existence. Clearly, it's very lucrative to sell windows/mac versions of wow, but not Linux. The reasons vary, but I suspect that the typical Linux user is a power user, not a gamer. Also, a Linux client wouldn't exactly go over well with MS and Apple. Blizz have obviously made a lot of money from very lucrative business arrangements. Generally speaking, it's not good business to make those higher up on the ladder angry. MS makes a lot of money by controlling the supply chain and the industry as a whole. Hypothetically, if Invidia starts making linux versions of their graphics cards, and then AMD and down the line, then things start to unravel and MS loses substantial money from sales of their OS, licensing fees, etc. Realistically, you can only hope that MS loses its position as industry leader. For the forseeable future, that's not likely to happen. Apple, as a resurgent leader, and now the world's largest tech company, is obviously better situated to be a viable alternative.

Also, with the current state of technology, overhead is hardly an issue. With exception of a faster linux boot up, everything runs smoother and faster in windows because the windows platform is the industry standard. BSD is considered technically superior to linux, but linux does more, so it's more popular, just as windows does more than either in regard to gaming and over all performance. Windows just works. It's very fast and has a clean, attractive interface. Ubuntu with its strange hybrid tablet-desktop interface doesn't do anything for me. From a design perspective, it makes no sense in terms of a DE because it's trying to be an all in one solution. How about just make separate editions? Anyway, gnome 2 was ugly. Gnome 3 is garbage mac wannabe just like unity. KDE is obviously windows inspired, so it's not as bad as the others.


wow really you have no clue how a os works let alone anything else?

You realize nvidia amd and intel grapics cards work on linux right? They dont need to make hardware eather linux or mac or windows the drivers are what control it. All 3 make linux graphics drivers. Theres alot of linux users that use wine to play games some work great some not so great sence it has to translate the direct x api standard which cough is not a indy standard by any means. Its priportary to windows not the rest of the operating systems in existence. You think mac os runs direct x anything no...

As far as you saying the unity desktop looks like a tablet / desktop hybrid umm it looks like a desktop? You wanna talk fugly desktops look at windows 8 nuff said. BSD is not technically superior to linux there both open source software. Overall preformance as far as system up time a much more advanced system update system. Stablitly memory management. Sorry but windows to this date cannot even compete with system stability not to mention security. Here lets try one for ya install vmware player install debin or ubuntu or suse and go start plugging things in i bet you ur linux box will be highly more plug in play then your windows os.....

You wanna talk gaming performance & overhead. Preformance wise games under wine and games under native windows 9 times out of 10 will preform the same which is ironic considering that linux has to translate all that direct x code to open gl open al code and back again. Oh and Left 4 dead 2 under linux is 20+ percent faster under open gl and linux then windows. .... Largely do to Linux system kernel optimizations. Also the graphics are faster not only does open gl 4x do everything direct x does. Do to faster rendering pipelines it also does it alot smoother and faster.

We wont even get into system memory overhead.. Linux smashes windows in os footprint alone not to mention the amount of ram thats actually requited to run the os..

As far as ms and mac os keeping blizzard from making a client that's up to blizzard not them as they do not run blizzard.

i don't care if you use windows or not its not my place to judge. But why do you guys seem to persist that if they made us a client like it would butt hurt you all in some way?
just a fyi recent reports that show out of the worlds 60 million computers (this is home use not servers included.)

20 million pc's have linux installed on them and they expect linux to hit = marketshare with windows by 2015 and surpass it by 2020....

even if you Google browser by os linux has surpassed 5 percent mark and coming up on mac os 8 percent but that is just browser.

im not saying one is better then teh other without one os the other will grow stagnet competion is always a good thing. The point im trying to drive home is yes linux users are abundent and if you have ever watched humble bundle buys linux by far always donates more per user then mac os / windows combined even tho tehy have more overall sales. what does that say yes even tho linux is free we are more then willing to pay for closed source software.
"wow really you have no clue how a os works let alone anything else?"

i stopped reading right there.
"wow really you have no clue how a os works let alone anything else?"

i stopped reading right there.


helps if you quote the person you are referring to..

if you are referring to me and what you wrote sorry i didnt write more but your comment was 100 percent bull!@#$...

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