why not crit?

Priest
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im lvling disc and lovin it, but when i look at priorities its mastery>haste>crit since crits proc aegis, i was wondering

honest question, why not crit>mastery>haste? im sure theres one or two really good ones, but i dont see them right away
As a general "rule", healers avoid weighting RNG. Chance to Crit doesn't help you when your Greater Heal didn't happen to crit, and the regular-sized Greater Heal wasn't enough to keep the tank alive.

We do love DA an awful lot, but in fact Haste is a bigger factor in our love-affair with DA than Crit is, interestingly! This is because the vast majority of our DA comes from our group heal, Prayer of Healing, which I'd imagine you don't have access to right now. PoH applies a DA to evry target it heals even if it doesn't crit (though if it *does* crit we get a much bigger DA), and what happens is if you have plenty of Haste, you cast PoH faster and it outweighs trying to bump up your DA via making your heals crit more often.

The above is information which was primarily garnered through pre-5.0.4 healing, though; keep your eyes out for information coming in over the next few weeks about how things are shaping up as Disc priests get into the new MoP end-game content (healing mechanics change drastically for healers once they hit end-game, and lvl 90 will be different than lvl 85 was).
09/23/2012 11:14 PMPosted by Nourii
Crit doesn't really do a whole lot for PoH or PW:S.


Well not PWS, but why not PoH? PoH is certainly capable of critting and applying a larger DA.
I love Crit. Absolutely love it to death. It's always been my favorite stat for both Disc (ok, after Mastery) and Holy Paladins. I get massive direct heals, big bubbles, huge Smites, Holy Fires, and Atonements.

09/23/2012 11:14 PMPosted by Nourii
Crit doesn't really do a whole lot for PoH or PW:S.


Sadly, it no longer affects the heal from PW:S (if you've glyphed it) like it used to, and while there's no longer a glyph to give PoH a HoT (RIP), crit still gives you much bigger shields with PoH (and the initial heal...). I always cast Inner Focus before PoH.
Crit is amazing for POH, far better than mastery. -IF- you are casting it a lot, not one here and there. Double healing + bigger DA is not minor. And you don't care who gets the crits in an AOE healing situation, it's going to help someone, and smart heals will fill in the cracks.

The real issue with disc is that all 3 secondary stats are good in completely different ways, so spell usage has to determine which ones you prioritize. When I get back to Disc I expect to go for roughly equal stats and simply adjust according to what feels most needed.
09/24/2012 09:28 AMPosted by Orvain
Crit is amazing for POH, far better than mastery.


Well crit used to be really good for PoH because a crit would actually double dip into DA. Since this is no longer true and non-crits already apply DA, crit rating actually benefits PoH less than most of our other heals.

Crit is by no means an awful stat as a disc priest, it's just mastery is scaling so well with our spell usage that haste and crit tend to fall behind.
If I were to make an educated guess for Discipline in MoP it's going to be Intelligence > Spirit > Mastery > Haste > Crit, with Intelligence and Spirit trading places depending on whether throughput or sustainability are a larger concern.
As a Disc Priest, the mana pool is your enemy. You don't get a lot of ways to conserve it like Holy and Shadow does. So you want to load up on gear that makes you get more bang for your buck when you cast that heal spell or shield. +power, +int, things like that. Crit is too unreliable.
Keep forgetting that change, though crit is still strong for POH.

The trouble is that DS massively favored stacking up in a small area, and had an abnormally large amount of POH usage as a result. If POH drops in priority, there's less reason to hang on to crit.
09/24/2012 11:08 AMPosted by Orvain
The trouble is that DS massively favored stacking up in a small area, and had an abnormally large amount of POH usage as a result. If POH drops in priority, there's less reason to hang on to crit.


This is so very true! I went into my first few DSes with a "I'm a tank healer, not a raid healer" mindset, but I had to learn to make PoH one of my most-cast spells very quickly.
this is the order of stats i go for as priest pvping in the new (Mop talent tree system patch 5.0):

Shadow: Haste >>> Mastery >>> Crit (Haste/Mastery surpasses crit for shadow priest) too much of 1 stats is a very bad thing.

Holy: Spirit >>> Mastery >>> Haste >>> Crit (Spirit is a must till you don't have mana issues then mastery to boost your echo of light ( it will be 2nd to resto hots paired with a renew) and haste is a must because flash of heals is your 4th choice after renew serenity and mending is used.

Disc: Spirit >>> Mastery >>> Crit >>> Haste ( disc has too much mana issues and spirit shell makes the problem worst imo. you're gonna need way more spirit as disc compared to holy but make sure you make room for mastery or crit cause it's preferencial due to playstyle but i favor mastery for more absorbs. haste is a no no and should be last unless you're playing
AA attonement style you'll want haste/crit mastery will be last.

so why not crit? i hate to bet on chance proc
You get intellegence in every piece of your gears so i would not favor it 1st on my priority for pvp and i certainly will not gem every slot with intells and forgo resillence gems completely. alliance toons will likely do this especially humans lol so i favor "the more resilence the better" to counter folks who gem all intell or strengh. i have enchanter and tailoring max so that gives me plenty of intel when it procs so just to get another 50 on my cloak and bracer isn't necessary. i rather use it for more haste and mastery.
I think Iritha said it best. It's not a good idea to prioritize something that is based upon a chance, any chance. Best to bank on things that operate consistently.

Even a 99% chance of critting is potentially dangerous. You could count on critting so much that your play style depends upon it. And what happens at the one percent of the time that it doesn't crit, and you needed/expected it to?

Question: What does Mastery actually do for me, as a DISC?
im lvling disc and lovin it, but when i look at priorities its mastery>haste>crit since crits proc aegis, i was wondering

honest question, why not crit>mastery>haste? im sure theres one or two really good ones, but i dont see them right away


Just my opinion, but at your level, your priority should be Stamina. It was my experience, leveling this toon on the heels of the Penance nerf, that mana simply was not an issue for me. The only time I ever had a problem with mana is when I was healing the Stormwind Stockade with a very inexperienced tank who had threat issues. When we pulled the room with that disappearing goofball in the tophat, I was literally spamming fast heal all over the place just to keep the group alive, and even then, I had enough to sustain the group. And if I didn't, I had collected some mana potions through drops.

At your level, your biggest concern, dealing with new tanks without a full tool kit is survivability. And that means Stamina.

(Of course, this is just me, but I always had the biggest problem keeping track of my OWN health bar when healing. I would watch everyone else's like a hawk, but that big bar above the group window always seems to escape my notice.)
09/24/2012 01:15 AMPosted by Nourii


Well not PWS, but why not PoH? PoH is certainly capable of critting and applying a larger DA.

PoH already applies DA. So the increase from a crit would be very minor. Compare this to Greater Heal, which goes from no DA to having a DA.


Crit doubles the heal and roughly quadruples the DA shield on PoH, minor it is not.
revulva's spreadsheet has crit a bit ahead of other throughput secondary stats, but for disc everything seems kind of close.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqOEHcTBAvyidFVqUlJLb25CTTFLcTFnN2w5MkVnMmc#gid=16

I suspect a lot of priests will go mastery, though since the rng aspect of crit (except where SS is concerned) is not particularly appealing for most healers.

Just my opinion, but at your level, your priority should be Stamina. It was my experience, leveling this toon on the heels of the Penance nerf, that mana simply was not an issue for me. The only time I ever had a problem with mana is when I was healing the Stormwind Stockade with a very inexperienced tank who had threat issues. When we pulled the room with that disappearing goofball in the tophat, I was literally spamming fast heal all over the place just to keep the group alive, and even then, I had enough to sustain the group. And if I didn't, I had collected some mana potions through drops.

At your level, your biggest concern, dealing with new tanks without a full tool kit is survivability. And that means Stamina.

(Of course, this is just me, but I always had the biggest problem keeping track of my OWN health bar when healing. I would watch everyone else's like a hawk, but that big bar above the group window always seems to escape my notice.)


o.O Hmmm. Maybe just a couple of pointers to help here:

(i) Stacking stam in case you need to tank isn't best practise. Tanking isn't our job. We have the Fade spell to help us out with our threat management. It allows us to drop threat (not permanently but for a period). If you find yourself healing an inexperienced/weaker tank you really want to try to make yourself run your toon to him/her and then hit fade. As long as the tank does any damage (such as a cleave) they will pick the add up off you.

(ii) If you invest in increasing the intensity of your spells you should find you aren't forced forced to spam emergency heals. Sometimes we all have to (hopefully very rarely indeed). But it's a very bad habit to get into. Really worth while to take the opportunity while leveling to come to grips with your toolkit. (For example, the damage reduction/prevention from a single, instant cast, glyphed psychic scream may be a much better cast choice than allowing the damage to continue unchecked and then trying to heal through that damage in a 'panic'ed/uncontrolled fashion).

(iii) I'd really suggest moving your health bar (with an addon). You really do want your health bar/party bars/Raid frames in a position that allows you to heal effectively, without compromising your situational awareness. If you're often not noticing your health, your UI isn't doing a good job for you.

There are quite a few guides on healing in this and other forums. They may have something to offer you, if you have a bit of time to spare. Worth digging one or two out I think.

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