5.0 Windwalker PvE Guide

Monk
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09/28/2012 10:58 AMPosted by Gutsu
I think the best way to buff FoF isn't increasing its damage but increasing haste's effect on it. Gaining a 6th tick for example... haste is already our most valued secondary stat and this would add even more value to it.


That would imply it act like a dot instead of a channel.
FoF works like mind flay (a channeled cast), where you dont actually gain ticks, it just channels the base ticks four second minus the haste reduction through stats.
aka channels 4 ticks faster, but never adding ticks.
FoF is a tricky devil. It does a significant amount of damage to a target (less so on multiple ones) yet it also stuns targets. This later portion doesn't affect the majority of pve players, but has huge importance in pvp. Imagine being pummeled for 30K+ (figuring that damage post resilience) each second, while others can beat on you, and all the while there's nothing you can do to defend yourself during that time frame unless your escape trinket is up.

Just buffing the damage would make it even more op in pvp, while just making it useful in pve, especially due to the fact you're rooted in place. What would probably best fit the pve model would be a glyph (yes i said it) to allow you to move but removing the stun. Whether the damage portion of the spell in pve keeps up will be a question to ask as we get closer to fuller raiding gear, but for now, whilst I'm in all these silly blue pieces, it's beneficial for me to keep using it where I can.

EDIT: Theres a couple wonky things with FoF that i'm working on testing. For some reason i'm having an issue with it hasting the ticks; working on getting that fixed right now. Since SCK uses the same formula for tick damage, it will also need to be fixed when i figure it out :x


Ah, that'd make since on why greater haste levels diminish the usefulness of FoF even more. Glad this has turned into something productive.
FoF is a tricky devil. It does a significant amount of damage to a target (less so on multiple ones) yet it also stuns targets. This later portion doesn't affect the majority of pve players, but has huge importance in pvp. Imagine being pummeled for 30K+ (figuring that damage post resilience) each second, while others can beat on you, and all the while there's nothing you can do to defend yourself during that time frame unless your escape trinket is up.

Just buffing the damage would make it even more op in pvp, while just making it useful in pve, especially due to the fact you're rooted in place. What would probably best fit the pve model would be a glyph (yes i said it) to allow you to move but removing the stun. Whether the damage portion of the spell in pve keeps up will be a question to ask as we get closer to fuller raiding gear, but for now, whilst I'm in all these silly blue pieces, it's beneficial for me to keep using it where I can.


Considering how awful people say WW are in pvp (I personally don't pvp so don't know if it is true), I don't think this is really a problem right now.
FoF is going to need to change. I really like the idea of some kind of buff you get when you complete the cast and increasing its damage a bit. Right now I'm planing on doing some in game tests to see how I personally perform with it and then, if my suspicions are correct, just not using it at all.
just a quick question as I'll hit 90 soon. For stats after hit/exp, I should go haste but what about mastery and crit? should I go more crit over mastery, vice versa or a balance of the two?
ok thanks.
Question: Does tiger power buff affect magical damage?

About FoF I think we should get a glyph to allow to move or tune down the damage and buff other monk abilities damage in return, well thats me.
09/27/2012 05:35 PMPosted by Rkiver
Just FYI, looks like you left some Brewmaster-specific stuff in the "Everything Else" section.


Copy/paste fail. Fixed, thanks.

FALSE! Haste increases your regen rate for energy, which is the main reason haste is the highest priority in gearing (after hit/exp/agi).


I did mention that haste increases energy regen, but in the next sentence; clarified that point.
09/29/2012 07:30 AMPosted by Gutsu
just a quick question as I'll hit 90 soon. For stats after hit/exp, I should go haste but what about mastery and crit? should I go more crit over mastery, vice versa or a balance of the two?


On beta I found that if you go DW (which all indicators are saying you should) Haste >Crit > Mastery. If for some reason you use a 2h (example: not being able to get a good pair of 1hs/your loot luck sucks or you happen to be a scribe when you hit 90) Then it's probably better to go Haste > Mastery > Crit.


Its still haste > crit > mastery for 2H.
DW is substantially better than 2h currently. In BiS gear its a gap of ~5k that only grows larger with better gear.

Its also worth noting that in a perfect rotation with perfect FoF usage, its a negligible gain. Within that perfect rotation if you were to drop FoF from your rotation entirely, you only lose around 1.6% of your theoretical max DPS, and as haste and mastery levels increase with later tiers it becomes even less and less of a loss until eventually by the final tier, were no changes to happen, FoF would be a flat DPS loss again.

If you miss a tick due to a boss moving in a realistic scenario, then you've already lost DPS by choosing to use it. So if there is any chance of the boss moving or you needing to move, then don't use it at that time.

I also would like to say that Chi Wave is absolutely amazing for the solo WW and provides amazing healing, long term and burst when needed. ZS as much as I like the ability takes far too long to provide a meaningful amount healed for the cost.

Finally RSK on CD should be the monks top priority as its higher DPET than any other ability in the monk arsenal.


i just have two things to say...first is that when i was on the beta i found FoF to be more of a situational skill and a pvp skill than something i wanted in my rotation...i got more use out of those three chi in other ability's than i did wasting them on FoF...on the other had a 5 sec stun was brutal in pvp.

my other point is CW. as it is now CW is bugged so that it doesn't bounce properly in a group. so high end raiders and heroics will find the HoT/DoT combo of ZS to be a better choice in the long run.
This is a awesome guide. Thanks for posting it!
Firstly, thanks for all of the monk guides, they've been very helpful.

To add my 2 cents though, as I'm not a theorycrafter/simcrafter/number cruncher, I just wanted to say it's kind of weird that Blizz designed FoF the way they did in the first place. In general, the monk's been all about quick, fast strikes, even the heals tick pretty quickly with a few having the ability to be instant cast. Then we get a DPS skill that's, honestly, kind of slow and out of place. Personally, I think it needs to be redone altogether if they want it to be rotational. Then again when I think Fists of Fury, I would think some kind of buff like the Rogue's Slice and Dice, while making it still cost Chi but something you'd honestly want to use in every fight.

But like I said, not a theorycrafter or anything like it so might not be that good of an idea either.
@Advanced:

You're probably wondering where i've been with numbers; sadly I've been told I need to Mistweaver it up for the coming weeks for guild raiding and my time has been spent getting that all situated. When I get a spare moment I'll be sure to go back and get some personal data for the 2h v dw debate.
09/28/2012 01:02 AMPosted by Aryvei
Spinning Fire Blossom has good damage when you're forced to stay ranged, but in melee the damage is halved and you're better off using your normal rotation.


Are you sure?

It wouldn't surprise me if that was the way it's supposed to work, but it doesn't seem to be in practice right now. Obviously I haven't used it at max level, but it outdamages Blackout Kick in melee range for me right now and takes only 1 Chi.

I'm wearing crappy cloth caster heirloom gear at the moment while leveling so it may be inflating it in comparison to if I had actual AGI/AP gear, but there's really no point in blackout kick as I level since energy starvation is a non-issue with SFB rather than trying to use 2 Chi per kick, AND it's outdamaging the kick even in melee range as it is.

I had assumed this changed as I got higher in level because of base damage adjustments, but that seems unlikely if there's a mechanic that was supposed to be handling the damage difference.

Unless that mechanic doesn't work at lower levels or something like that.
10/03/2012 03:43 PMPosted by Kainen
Spinning Fire Blossom has good damage when you're forced to stay ranged, but in melee the damage is halved and you're better off using your normal rotation.


Are you sure?

It wouldn't surprise me if that was the way it's supposed to work, but it doesn't seem to be in practice right now. Obviously I haven't used it at max level, but it outdamages Blackout Kick in melee range for me right now and takes only 1 Chi.


Not exactly sure how the scaling works, but when I hit 80 or so my BoK hit for double what my SFB hit for.
Are you sure?

It wouldn't surprise me if that was the way it's supposed to work, but it doesn't seem to be in practice right now. Obviously I haven't used it at max level, but it outdamages Blackout Kick in melee range for me right now and takes only 1 Chi.

I'm wearing crappy cloth caster heirloom gear at the moment while leveling so it may be inflating it in comparison to if I had actual AGI/AP gear, but there's really no point in blackout kick as I level since energy starvation is a non-issue with SFB rather than trying to use 2 Chi per kick, AND it's outdamaging the kick even in melee range as it is.

I had assumed this changed as I got higher in level because of base damage adjustments, but that seems unlikely if there's a mechanic that was supposed to be handling the damage difference.

Unless that mechanic doesn't work at lower levels or something like that.


I was worried about this while leveling myself. I assure you its not the case. Continue to use SFB as your primary chi dump, but literally the moment you hit 80 and head to Peak of Serenity to pick up your free blue weapon SFB stops being relevant. At 90 you'll use it if you HAVE to stay off the mob, but its a pretty awful move even with the 50% damage bonus. Its better than what most melee DPS has to deal with by far, but its a far cry from what you were doing pre-80.
09/25/2012 07:02 PMPosted by Alamonk
3. Tigereye Brew at 10 stacks.


I've seen information that suggests it's a negligible difference to use TB at any stack amount.
http://elitistjerks.com/f99/t129814-windwalker_dps_flurry_tender_fisting/p8/#post2189744

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