Admiral Rogers was correct

Moon Guard
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09/28/2012 01:53 PMPosted by Kalissia
He didn't break any vow to his son.
Except he did.

09/28/2012 01:53 PMPosted by Kalissia
In fact, he sought to set an example to him.
No, he didn't. Taelan was a better man than Tirion ever will be, Tirion ruined him.

09/28/2012 01:53 PMPosted by Kalissia
hen Taelan did die, he vowed to reform the Order, to become a force of good in the world. The Argent Crusade became precisely just that.
Except they didn't.
09/28/2012 03:27 PMPosted by Karob
Except they didn't.


Lich King
That's not how the Alliance works. The Alliance is about honor and nobility, and the Holy Light is extremely prominent in it. They're not bloodthirsty, merciless monsters. They're not "Garrosh Version 1". While yes, there's few in the Alliance who would want such a thing, but King Varian, Anduin Wrynn and General Turalyon made it very clear on what the ideals of the Alliance are. That is, they will not stoop down to methods of the Horde (aka, Garrosh) to achieve victory. They do things honorably and fairly, towards justice, not genocide. Genocidal acts, lust for war and blood-- these things were never part of true Alliance ideals, and never will be.


I just think it's dumb for Velen to save a race that's brought his own people so much suffering. If he's so perfect and grand, he should be neutral.
09/28/2012 03:36 PMPosted by Ferenold
he should be neutral.


I would be ok with this.

In fact, after BC, they should've just made him Guardian of the Sunwell or something.

Make their trio of Paladins the leader.
09/28/2012 03:40 PMPosted by Arlifrex
he should be neutral.


I would be ok with this.

In fact, after BC, they should've just made him Guardian of the Sunwell or something.

Make their trio of Paladins the leader.


Imo Draenei as a whole need should have either been neutral, or taken more direct action against the orcs.
09/28/2012 03:29 PMPosted by Arlifrex
Except they didn't.


Lich King
Is this supposed to make attacking Strathlome, stealing the Ashbringer, and letting the Forsaken openly commit evil okay?
09/28/2012 03:46 PMPosted by Karob


Lich King
Is this supposed to make attacking Strathlome, stealing the Ashbringer, and letting the Forsaken openly commit evil okay?


he just wants peace with the forsaken, ok???
09/28/2012 03:46 PMPosted by Karob
attacking Strathlome


The place infested with the Scourge? Or am I missing another story?

09/28/2012 03:46 PMPosted by Karob
stealing the Ashbringer


That was given to him by Darion, the guy who killed your guy.

09/28/2012 03:46 PMPosted by Karob
and letting the Forsaken openly commit evil okay?


As long as they don't attack neutrals or the world, yes. Yes it is ok. No Gilneans don't count. No one cares about them. Not even other Gilneans.
09/28/2012 03:45 PMPosted by Ferenold
Imo Draenei as a whole need should have either been neutral, or taken more direct action against the orcs.


Not as a whole. They fit with the Alliance. Blizzard just derps on their lore. If anything, they should've included the Broken. Those are people who don't like the Orcs. They'd fight against them.

Any obvious progression they should take against the Horde, gets ignored.
09/28/2012 03:52 PMPosted by Arlifrex
The place infested with the Scourge? Or am I missing another story?
Eltrigg's breakout.

09/28/2012 03:52 PMPosted by Arlifrex
That was given to him by Darion, the guy who killed your guy.
Your point? Darion stole it, gave it to Tirion, and Tirion doesn't do anything with it.

09/28/2012 03:52 PMPosted by Arlifrex
As long as they don't attack neutrals or the world, yes. Yes it is ok. No Gilneans don't count. No one cares about them. Not even other Gilneans.
Yes Gilneas does count, and until they hand over the Ashbringer to someone who can use it, they're held accountable for the Forsaken's genocide.
Admiral Rogers is an awesome character. At times he feels purely as a response from Blizzard to Alliance who feel...

Stepped on. But we need someone like that. War isn't hugs and forgiveness. Sometimes the enemy just crosses too many lines, and actual war is needed.

Too bad it's on the lands of people that didn't ask for it.

Edit: oops. I walked in on a thread derail. Well'p. Re-railing it.
09/28/2012 03:55 PMPosted by Karob
Eltrigg's breakout.


Anyone that would care are either dead, Scourged, or Forsaken.

09/28/2012 03:55 PMPosted by Karob
Your point? Darion stole it, gave it to Tirion, and Tirion doesn't do anything with it.


Darion looted it from his father after saving him. He took it to his brother so his father can exact revenge for his death. He gave it to Tirion to save his life. The smackings Tirion gave Arthas before killing him aren't enough for you?
09/28/2012 03:52 PMPosted by Arlifrex
That was given to him by Darion, the guy who killed your guy.
Your point? Darion stole it, gave it to Tirion, and Tirion doesn't do anything with it.


He shattered Frostmourne with it. That is no simple feat.
09/28/2012 01:01 PMPosted by Ferenold
Without the Sunwell they would perish or be driven to further despair, though.


They weren't dying without the Sunwell. They were using alternative forms of Magic that frankly put the entire world at risk through their consumption.

The Draenei figured they'd allow Belves to use the Sunwell again, either out of pity, a desire to redeem them, or maybe just undoing what Arthas did to them. it isn't the Blood Elves's fault the Sunwell was destroyed, and by repairing it they are undoing a great wrong and also benefiting the (Admittedly few) Alliance aligned High Elves.

There really wasn't a downside to them reigniting it.
09/28/2012 04:00 PMPosted by Arlifrex
Anyone that would care are either dead, Scourged, or Forsaken.
Or alive, in the Monastery. Or alive, in Stormwind. You know, because there were survivors of Lordaeron.

09/28/2012 04:00 PMPosted by Arlifrex
Darion looted it from his father after saving him. He took it to his brother so his father can exact revenge for his death. He gave it to Tirion to save his life. The smackings Tirion gave Arthas before killing him aren't enough for you?
No, they aren't. Sylvanas is worse than Arthas, and his refusal to kill her makes him unworthy of the Ashbringer.

09/28/2012 04:00 PMPosted by Kalissia
Your point? Darion stole it, gave it to Tirion, and Tirion doesn't do anything with it.


He shattered Frostmourne with it. That is no simple feat.
The Ashbringer destroyed legions of Undead easily.
I don't understand why people still try to defend Tirion. All evidence points to him being a traitor and a coward.

Now having said that, I didn't chime in on the whole Admiral Rogers thing because I thought it was so clear cut nobody would bother arguing it, but I guess that's not the case either. Against an enemy whose entire way of life is literally stated as "Win or Die" there is only one viable option to deal with hundreds of encroaching enemies who haven't even openly surrendered.

She made the right decision, morally and tactically. Also Rell is a pansy.

Wow they changed the way the censor works.
09/28/2012 04:05 PMPosted by Danyl
I don't understand why people still try to defend Tirion. All evidence points to him being a traitor and a coward.


I miss Alex.

The TRUE Ashbringer.
09/28/2012 04:03 PMPosted by Karob
Or alive, in the Monastery


They are seen as crazy. Don't ask me why. Also, they are dead, dying, or will die thanks to Voss. Blame Blizzard.

09/28/2012 04:03 PMPosted by Karob
Or alive, in Stormwind


I honestly feel that number is inflated. Most are probably citizens who will probably overlook that incident in favor of him saving the world.

You don't expect the Alliance to hate Jaina for letting the Horde to kill her father right?

Or Dalaran for being neutral?

Or Gilneas bailing out?

Or the High Elves because of what their "people (blood elves)" did?

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if people love Thrall for saving their lives.

09/28/2012 04:03 PMPosted by Karob
No, they aren't. Sylvanas is worse than Arthas, and his refusal to kill her makes him unworthy of the Ashbringer.


So then blame Darion too. And Dalaran. Regardless of how you or I feel, she hasn't crossed a line yet. As long as she doesn't she gets to do whatever she wants.

09/28/2012 04:03 PMPosted by Karob
The Ashbringer destroyed legions of Undead easily.


I bet you that if a Scarlet or Turalyon broke Frostmourne, you'd treat that as the greatest feat of a Paladin ever.
Or Gilneas bailing out?


I think there would be a fair bit of animosity, yes.
09/28/2012 04:12 PMPosted by Arlifrex
So then blame Darion too. And Dalaran. Regardless of how you or I feel, she hasn't crossed a line yet. As long as she doesn't she gets to do whatever she wants.
What line hasn't Sylvanas crossed?

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