A thankful players response to a CS Response

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A friendly reminder to take note of the underlined word "potentially" which basically means that even in a highly detailed and well drawn loot rule setup, the GM can still disreguard them and state that the person in question did nothing in violation of the policies.
In terms of loot, making and then breaking a clear in-game agreement on the way loot will be distributed by a Master Looter can be considered a scam. Unfortunately, some players will make loot agreements they have no intention of keeping to get players to join a dungeon or raid group. In these situations, players who disregard the original agreement and then take (or give away) loot in a different way are potentially violating our Scam Policy.


Still report violators, just dont expect the GMs to make use of their ban hammer aka pool noodle.
10/01/2012 05:02 PMPosted by Bashiok
Typical PR spin from a blue that skirts the issue to the side. Shocking.


Typical response debasing a logical response and providing no rebuttal, requests, or questions. Why bother?

Because you OBVIOUSLY did not read the original post, nor the remainder of the thread, Bash.

There are items that are of little-to-no use to some classes being need rolled on by them, but the classes it was intended for cannot roll Need?

Put your reading glasses on, man.

Searing Words, maybe? PALADINS (who gain no benefit from Agility) can roll Need on it, but Rogues and Hunters cannot?

Hello? Anyone home?


He got his professional response out of the way, and now it's time for fun Bash! Don't you worry about him.


To be honest, I'm worried about the health and future of this game as a whole at the moment. The blues can lose it due to the crappy attitudes on the forums. It has happened, as in the case of Tseric. Customer support is a big deal and they don't need it to get snarky right now. As the ones getting paid to be here, the blues should take the higher ground in my opinion. When they stop holding themselves to a higher standard and start with the snarky comebacks, things get weird quickly.


For petes sake! there was nothing unprofessional about bashiok's response at all! It was a totally appropriate response given the context and given the statement that was being responded to. There was nothing snarky and there was indicationj that Bashiok was anywhere close to "losing it". He called it as he saw it, and quite accurately, imo.

People, remember that is a pc game forum, since when do cms have to behave like they're the waiter at a 5 star restaurant? I mean. their customer base consists mostly of unruly childern, teens and tweens. Their job is akin to a elementry school teacher
10/01/2012 04:44 PMPosted by Rúm
Typical PR spin from a blue that skirts the issue to the side. Shocking.


There is no spin in Bashiok's reply. He's also the only CM that I haven't seen attempt to spin negative responses into being positive ones. He may say "Too bad, so sad" or explain why he disagrees with people (like the lvl 90 flight thread), but he doesn't engage in "spin" as far as I've seen.

I still want to know if the resident marine biologist at Blizzard gave him a hazing for the fish eatting fish comment.
10/01/2012 06:51 PMPosted by Alaia


Typical response debasing a logical response and providing no rebuttal, requests, or questions. Why bother?

Because you OBVIOUSLY did not read the original post, nor the remainder of the thread, Bash.

There are items that are of little-to-no use to some classes being need rolled on by them, but the classes it was intended for cannot roll Need?

Put your reading glasses on, man.

Searing Words, maybe? PALADINS (who gain no benefit from Agility) can roll Need on it, but Rogues and Hunters cannot?

Hello? Anyone home?


That specific item has already been addressed as being a bug. It will be fixed, it has been reported hundreds if not thousands of times.
There are items that are of little-to-no use to some classes being need rolled on by them, but the classes it was intended for cannot roll Need?

Put your reading glasses on, man.

Searing Words, maybe? PALADINS (who gain no benefit from Agility) can roll Need on it, but Rogues and Hunters cannot?

Hello? Anyone home?


He's a community manager and unaffiliated with QA or technical support. That item and its inability to be rolled on by the appropriate class should be posted on the bug report forum (which I need to visit after my test to say that Unholy Blight isn't working correctly in game currently), and not tossed at his feet like he can do anything about it.
Back to the need/greed system though, it's essentially a limitation in it not being able to determine spec, and our CS department just can't play arbiter for every drop to determine who 'deserves' an item more than someone else. While it can be a frustrating situation, I hope at least that makes sense.


This is all well and good, but the system is broken right now.

Death Knights shouldn't be able to roll need on mail. Nothing to do with spec.
Death Knights shouldn't be able to roll need on Int maces. Nothing to do with spec.
Hunters should be able to roll need on Agility trinkets with +Chance to hit on them.
10/01/2012 06:54 PMPosted by Bomdanil
I still want to know if the resident marine biologist at Blizzard gave him a hazing for the fish eatting fish comment.


Guh! I clarified in that thread, obviously fish eat other fish, but I'd think they'd be in the water and eat them, and not stand on the shore and cast a fishing pole into it. Of course the Jinyu employing fishing nets kind of ruined my theory.
Typical response debasing a logical response and providing no rebuttal, requests, or questions. Why bother?
Boom.
10/01/2012 06:57 PMPosted by Bomdanil
and not tossed at his feet like he can do anything about it.


Looked to me like a slap across his face with a wet fish but still, it's like getting mad at the mailman cuz your check's not in the mail. >_>
10/01/2012 07:33 PMPosted by Vixie
and not tossed at his feet like he can do anything about it.


Looked to me like a slap across his face with a wet fish but still, it's like getting mad at the mailman cuz your check's not in the mail. >_>


Vixie, your metaphors are not unlike an analogy wrapped in swaddling clothes and passed off as tickets to an all-ursine symphony.
10/01/2012 07:35 PMPosted by Snowfox
Vixie, your metaphors are not unlike an analogy wrapped in swaddling clothes and passed off as tickets to an all-ursine symphony.


Snow, if I fail the neurophysiology test I've been studying for all day because your post made my brain implode I'm going to have to hunt you down in game and /pout at you.

Snow, if I fail the neurophysiology test I've been studying for all day because your post made my brain implode I'm going to have to hunt you down in game and /pout at you.


Random behavior reinforcement is best accomplished by mixing cognitive dissonance and culture jamming. I'm not sure to what end, but the gods of chaos tell me the rng goddess will favor me for doing so.
The need/greed system in dungeons is solid for the most part. There are some items that have slipped through the cracks, though, such as str maces for druids or agi polearms for hunters/warriors. I haven't lost a loot roll yet on something I've needed, which is really nice.
So, the new loot system is working as intended???? pally can NEED leather stuff. has no use for it. Druids can NEED plate gear......... have no need for it? Get real, You broke it. It worked just fine in cata. Fix it. Don't tell us to group with friends to fix the problem you made.
LFR loot bags for all man lfd groups please.

I'm way pass the point in caring if someone other than me wins loot, but I'd appreciate that large part of contention and static be removed from my pug parties. I do realize that the designers like the loot competition in small groups and want to give people a chance to gear whatever spec they want.. but I think the loot bag would be the best solution overall.
10/01/2012 04:32 PMPosted by Bashiok
Similarly if you're joining a pickup Raid you're at the mercy of the raid leader, who may hand his buddy a drop for no reason other than to unfairly take items from the raid group. This may not be usable advice for everyone, but: the best way to ensure you get the drops you want, or type of drops, is form a group yourself with friends/guildies you know and trust.


I have spent a good amount of my twenties playing this game. I have found friends, joined guilds, and have had fun.

It gets old though. Sooner or later, each person never logs back in. It is a vicious circle of trying to form a friendship. Finding people to trust gets even harder. Sooner or later someone gets nailed because of loot. The simple fact that you can act like a jerk in a game, and get away with it, sucks.

Before, it was easy for a server to 'blacklist' certain offenders. As the game developed though, it gave way to allow players to get away with this type of behavior. Yes, I know we can ignore them, but it does not stop the next player from being a jerk as well. Not to mention with 10 million players, it would be very difficult for a single jerk to get placed on ignore. This person will never actually feel the consequences of their own selfish actions.

That said, it is a game. If someone wants to be a jerk, they should be allowed to be a jerk. Without consequence is what I have a problem with.

What should the consequences be? How would you stop other players from actually exploiting any system put in place of the offenders? You have already set up the LFG system from stopping certain groups from vote kicking if they are from the same server. You know who each person is friends with, and I am pretty sure you know this on an account wide level, even without RealID.

It would take time to develop such a system, but had you guys actually started working on it, around the time you allowed players to change names, and transfer servers, it would of been solved by now.

You want a social game, please find a way to make it easier to trust people, and make it a difficult decision for people to break that trust, within the game.

So far, the only thing I have seen remotely close is the guild rep system. It stops players from ditching a guild, without actually having to start over again in a new guild.

What if you applied that to a character for each realm. Realm Rep. You start a new character at full rep. Each time you change your characters name, and/or change realm (changing race/sex should not be needed) you have to earn the rep to actually participate in LFG, LFR, or any type of automated systems.

I dont know, I just pulled that out from in between my cheeks.

It just sucks that the people that know the rules, can still be jerks without any impact on their own expierence, but it affects so many others negativity.
Similarly if you're joining a pickup Raid you're at the mercy of the raid leader, who may hand his buddy a drop for no reason other than to unfairly take items from the raid group. This may not be usable advice for everyone, but: the best way to ensure you get the drops you want, or type of drops, is form a group yourself with friends/guildies you know and trust.

Back to the need/greed system though, it's essentially a limitation in it not being able to determine spec, and our CS department just can't play arbiter for every drop to determine who 'deserves' an item more than someone else. While it can be a frustrating situation, I hope at least that makes sense.

I really recommend reading the following articles. They have a ton of info on why things work the way they do:
  • [url="https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/loot-settings"]Loot Settings[/url]
  • [url="https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/ninja-looting-blizzard-s-stance"]Ninja Looting: Blizzard's Stance[/url]
  • [url="https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/scam-policy"]Scam Policy[/url]

That said, there have been ongoing discussions on at some point revisiting the need/greed system in dungeons. Until such a time and day as the dungeon loot system changes, be well aware that you'll be competing for loot, but if you have the resources - go with friends.

Warlocks can roll Need on some plate gear and Paladins can roll on pretty much everything again.

Thought this was fixed in Cata, make one QoL feature, take it away and take two steps back. Who did you guys fire/replace recently? Undo it. You guys aren't doing things the Blizzard way anymore.

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